Questions/Concern regarding scaling of monsters & xp rewards

[Incarnate]

You partied up from level 1 to 2? Because that is also part of my point, that you should be able to venture out solo even on level 1 - which some can but only the strongest and sturdiest can do that. Tell me, why should one who solo, get the same amount of xp as those who share the xp, when the one soloing is having a far greater risks and is doing all of the work?

No, I started adventuring at level 2. Level 1 was done entirely through local quest XP in about an hour's time.

Ok, but you were still at serious risk because of how its constructed you should've at least have 2 levels above the CR. Where did you go level? Also one thing the also affects a lot is if one has a summon available to take some of the hits if not all, having a summon is a tremendous help at low level.

[NegInfinity]

You partied up from level 1 to 2? Because that is also part of my point, that you should be able to venture out solo even on level 1 - which some can but only the strongest and sturdiest can do that. Tell me, why should one who solo, get the same amount of xp as those who share the xp, when the one soloing is having a far greater risks and is doing all of the work?

No, I started adventuring at level 2. Level 1 was done entirely through local quest XP in about an hour's time.

Ok, but you were still at serious risk because of how its constructed you should've at least have 2 levels above the CR. Where did you go level? Also one thing the also affects a lot is if one has a summon available to take some of the hits if not all, having a summon is a tremendous help at low level.

I'd recommend to stop thinking about CR. CR is OOC information, and also it does not give you accurate description of area difficulty. Certain areas are more difficult for different classes, so someone might struggle even in area with lower cr, but be successful in area with higher CR.

In the end you simply need to get used to the way things work on the server. It takes time.

[sweetlikesplenda]

Just to throw it out there.

1) The CRs were built around group play. Which I understand can be difficult to find at times to get involved with. It really comes down to time of play, type of PC, and type of player. Put something in the Player Scry stating that you are at a certain level and looking for group RP/adventure. You might also have your PC start looking in to Guilds that they could pursue. Having some friends in a guild can help with adventuring.

2) Don't be afraid to reach out for help in other ways. I know a certain Knight (And player of said Knight) that loves to help adventurers (And Players) get by without becoming a corpse. Though he is a lvl 30, and would find some excuse not to tag along on the adventures of a low/lower level PC, he certain is always willing to offer some extended buffs to people before they head off to the gibberling/kobalds/goblins/etc, along with well wishes in their hunt. Those +4 buffs to multiple types of AC, AB, STR, CON, WIS, plus he has wands. With the long duration and high caster level the low/lower level PC can enjoy a long time of pure murdering evil little creatures.

I really only have my main PC, and like I said, he is lvl 30, so I may not be able to help on the actual adventure; but I am always happy to help out when I can so feel free to PM me for some assistance if you see me IG. Same account name IG as on the forums.

[Incarnate]

Just to throw it out there.

1) The CRs were built around group play. Which I understand can be difficult to find at times to get involved with. It really comes down to time of play, type of PC, and type of player. Put something in the Player Scry stating that you are at a certain level and looking for group RP/adventure. You might also have your PC start looking in to Guilds that they could pursue. Having some friends in a guild can help with adventuring.

Yes, which makes it a necessity to party up if you're not at least a few levels above the area's CR, which in my opinion is bad, because then in becomes on the other players terms rather one's own terms.

2) Don't be afraid to reach out for help in other ways. I know a certain Knight (And player of said Knight) that loves to help adventurers (And Players) get by without becoming a corpse. Though he is a lvl 30, and would find some excuse not to tag along on the adventures of a low/lower level PC, he certain is always willing to offer some extended buffs to people before they head off to the gibberling/kobalds/goblins/etc, along with well wishes in their hunt. Those +4 buffs to multiple types of AC, AB, STR, CON, WIS, plus he has wands. With the long duration and high caster level the low/lower level PC can enjoy a long time of pure murdering evil little creatures.

This ties into what I was saying about higher level characters helping lower level characters out of necessity and a sense of duty, because the lower level characters are mechanically in need of support/help. I don't have a problem reaching out to other characters through rp, but my point was that it becomes on others terms rather than my own terms because my character isn't strong enough to fend for its self properly. I hope this makes sense.

I really only have my main PC, and like I said, he is lvl 30, so I may not be able to help on the actual adventure; but I am always happy to help out when I can so feel free to PM me for some assistance if you see me IG. Same account name IG as on the forums.

Perhaps it was time to make a new character? I will definitely keep you in mind, but like I said above, I'd rather it was on my own terms rather other players/characters terms.

[aaron22]

there are alot of good pots out there that can help you. i think i spent well 1000gp for armor and weapons and the rest went into pots. think AC was about 26-28 which is nearly unbreakable at level 1. mage armor, barkskin, bless, speed, aid, cats/bulls/bear, etc. gold essentially went to more pots until i had enough for a regen cloak (level4) picked up a couple nice pieces to keep bringing the AC up. rings and boots. then you are home free.

edit: and dont worry about the deaths before level 10.. that xp is small potatoes. you will get that back in minutes. unlike 25ish where it will take you days/weeks.

[Incarnate]

there are alot of good pots out there that can help you. i think i spent well 1000gp for armor and weapons and the rest went into pots. think AC was about 26-28 which is nearly unbreakable at level 1. mage armor, barkskin, bless, speed, aid, cats/bulls/bear, etc. gold essentially went to more pots until i had enough for a regen cloak (level4) picked up a couple nice pieces to keep bringing the AC up. rings and boots. then you are home free.

edit: and dont worry about the deaths before level 10.. that xp is small potatoes. you will get that back in minutes. unlike 25ish where it will take you days/weeks.

Though having to spend all of that gold to use all of those potions just to be able to survive solo, seems abit too much in my opinion.

[aaron22]

its not... you can reach level 30 sitting at the pub drinking and going to the fishing hole.

[Cenerae]

It can be rough starting out on your own, but if you're patient and you use strategies your class might not normally entertain (Ranged combat in particular), you can make slow and steady progress. Once you have some gold, you can skim over the auctions and find some cheap +2 or +3 armor to use, which makes it considerably easier going.

And if you're a wizard, though they're very short lived at low level, you can prepare Summon Creature I to make an extra body for enemies to chase, and they do make for relatively effective combatants. If you don't have it and you didn't prepare any helpful CC spells like Sleep, then hit and run with a crossbow.

And ultimately, make it known through the scry tool that you're a low level looking for help. Stay to the lowest level areas instead of trying to force yourself to take on the 'appropriate' CR zones until you have enough gear to safely be there.

But upgrading your gear as quickly as possible is the goal. It will come in pieces, but the sooner you can prop up your AC, and the sooner you can get a regen cloak, the sooner you can stop hemmorhaging potions and first aid kits by getting hit frequently.

[Incarnate]

It can be rough starting out on your own, but if you're patient and you use strategies your class might not normally entertain (Ranged combat in particular), you can make slow and steady progress. Once you have some gold, you can skim over the auctions and find some cheap +2 or +3 armor to use, which makes it considerably easier going.

And if you're a wizard, though they're very short lived at low level, you can prepare Summon Creature I to make an extra body for enemies to chase, and they do make for relatively effective combatants. If you don't have it and you didn't prepare any helpful CC spells like Sleep, then hit and run with a crossbow.

And ultimately, make it known through the scry tool that you're a low level looking for help. Stay to the lowest level areas instead of trying to force yourself to take on the 'appropriate' CR zones until you have enough gear to safely be there.

But upgrading your gear as quickly as possible is the goal. It will come in pieces, but the sooner you can prop up your AC, and the sooner you can get a regen cloak, the sooner you can stop hemmorhaging potions and first aid kits by getting hit frequently.

Seems like you're missing the whole point, because you have to be 2-3 levels higher than the CR or somehow get a lot of different buffs just to be able to survive solo, not to mention the scaling also occurs. One shouldn't have to get all these buffs or just to able to survive out solo in LOW level areas - currently its constructed around group play - which means its on others terms and not ones own terms - this means you have to either party up or run an incredible risk. Personally I don't see why they shouldn't be able to scale down if one is soloing, since they're build around group play, then should be able to be scaled down to them being soloed. If one wants to solo, then why would one want to use the scry tool to lets others know about you wanting low level help when you want to solo, that doesn't make sense?

I've already pointed out that once you have a summon in you can't really compare it because then one isn't really solo any longer as one is getting help from an "NPC" so to speak. With that said, having a summon will help a alot with adventuring solo as that will take alot focus on it instead.

One of the things I see as a problem is that the creatures that have been scaled to a higher level due to higher level characters being in the area, even though the area reverts to a lower level CR that change doesn't take effect immediately, meaning the creatures are still a much higher CR either until killed or re-spawned - even though you get a warning that the area is much more dangerous and there are times where you don't even get a chance to react because they're already attacking you BEFORE you can actually see anything, or its an area you're just travelling through and remain on the roads but still get attacked and many creatures move faster than you. In my opinion, the areas that are travel areas ie. the road system shouldn't scale, not unless its based on some kind of event - like a bandit lord has arrived and until he's dealt with they will be stronger, which encourages rp and group play to get that taken care of. Also, I don't think low level dungeons should scale up either simply because low level characters simply has a much lower health buffer, so they die that much easier.

For instance, the Hilltop Ruins, you have creatures that basically spawn in the immediate area you enter, where its certainly possible for them to be in your face before you've even properly loaded into the map, it can also be that someone drew the to that point, but if you load into the map with them attacking you before you even have controls and they're already buffed, then you'll be fighting tougher and stronger creatures which might even down you BEFORE you even get a chance to do anything - has happened to me on several occasions already. Getting killed by a creature that has been scaled up due to the presence of others, doesn't mitigate a portion of xp loss either.

[Edit]
The message about them being stronger is actually OOC information and using it would be metagaming.

[NegInfinity]

Seems like you're missing the whole point, because you have to be 2-3 levels higher than the CR or somehow get a lot of different buffs just to be able to survive solo,

That's normal.

By the way, PnP challenge rating is defined for a group of 4, and not for a single character. Meaning if something has CR1, it means that 4 level 1 characters will survive encounter with it (normally), and not one. To fight alone you will need to be above monster CR.

Anyway. I beleive this is mostly a matter of getting used to the server. I started playing it for the first after beating Neverwinter 2 campaign (been a long time ago), and it felt VERY different, with different difficulty curve and everything else. So, keep trying till you get it.

Have fun.

[electric mayhem]

BGTSCC is a different experience. Time learning and acceptance. You'll eventually love it.

No one wins or succeeds on their first characters. Let alone their second character. Most are probably into double digits by now.

Try a more survivable character type until you get the hang of the server. Fighters/Barbs are great suggestions. Hit hard, wear decent AC gear, and carry heaps of loot to sell to accumulate gold.

[Cenerae]

Seems like you're missing the whole point, because you have to be 2-3 levels higher than the CR or somehow get a lot of different buffs just to be able to survive solo, not to mention the scaling also occurs. One shouldn't have to get all these buffs or just to able to survive out solo in LOW level areas

You do not *need* any of those things. They make it easier, yes. They are not required at all, though, and they'll burn up your gold income early on if you try to become reliant on them.

I've already pointed out that once you have a summon in you can't really compare it because then one isn't really solo any longer as one is getting help from an "NPC" so to speak.

Semantics and irrelevant. If I have the ability to summon something of relevant strength that can help me fight, I'm going to summon it. I'm not going to ignore that it's there because I want a 'solo' experience, because I don't intentionally go out of my way to make it harder for myself.

One of the things I see as a problem is that the creatures that have been scaled to a higher level due to higher level characters being in the area, even though the area reverts to a lower level CR that change doesn't take effect immediately, meaning the creatures are still a much higher CR either until killed or re-spawned

While true, it also hasn't been a big problem for me. If I notice an area is scaled up and I'm struggling, I back out and go to a less popular area. The bandit cave, the rats in the BG warehouse even. Maybe the area around the Chionthar river or the goblin ruins up in that zone. They aren't as good as running around the Graveyard or Hilltop, but they're of comparable difficulty for the most part.

For instance, the Hilltop Ruins, you have creatures that basically spawn in the immediate area you enter, where its certainly possible for them to be in your face before you've even properly loaded into the map, it can also be that someone drew the to that point, but if you load into the map with them attacking you before you even have controls and they're already buffed, then you'll be fighting tougher and stronger creatures which might even down you BEFORE you even get a chance to do anything - has happened to me on several occasions already. Getting killed by a creature that has been scaled up due to the presence of others, doesn't mitigate a portion of xp loss either.

Enemies don't start attacking you until you actually load in. Unless someone parked a bunch of stuff in the doorway on their mad dash out, you have more than enough time to assess the strength of the enemies and decide if you want to hang around. The scaling isn't that out of whack at the very low levels to make a major difference on the enemy AB that you'll suddenly be getting blenderized when you're otherwise fine.

Again, it comes down to 1) using the loot you get to buy some cheap upgrades from other players on the auctions, and/or 2) grouping with other people to make it easier.

You should be able to have +3 equipment in most of your slots by the time you're level 7 or 8 at the latest, which gives most classes enough AC to last them until they're level 18 ish.

It's not nearly as difficult as you're making it out to be. Unless you're rolling a drow or svirf rogue or wizard, but then you brought that one on yourself if you are. Or if your build makes no sense, I suppose, but that is also not the fault of the server in that case.

I also fail to see what your general aversion to grouping up is.

[Incarnate]

Seems like you're missing the whole point, because you have to be 2-3 levels higher than the CR or somehow get a lot of different buffs just to be able to survive solo,

That's normal.

By the way, PnP challenge rating is defined for a group of 4, and not for a single character. Meaning if something has CR1, it means that 4 level 1 characters will survive encounter with it (normally), and not one. To fight alone you will need to be above monster CR.

Anyway. I beleive this is mostly a matter of getting used to the server. I started playing it for the first after beating Neverwinter 2 campaign (been a long time ago), and it felt VERY different, with different difficulty curve and everything else. So, keep trying till you get it.

Have fun.

I know how PnP CR is defined, being a longtime DM myself - the thing with PnP is that the DM can still pretty much tailor an encouter to a solo encounter, that could be very accurate in terms of balance and such. Normally a kobold is CR 1/4 which is on par with a solo 1st level character with ECL of 1/4, with the CR being scaled - it is no longer on par. If its scaled to CR2 then its certain far from being on par. If they're not scaled then they can still be handled 1v1, even 1v2.

Characters should still not be forced to having to party up to be able to adventure, but this is what it mechanically results to with how it is now, or one having to take great risks and spending a ton of resources in getting items and consumables that will help in this endavour.

BGTSCC is a different experience. Time learning and acceptance. You'll eventually love it.

No one wins or succeeds on their first characters. Let alone their second character. Most are probably into double digits by now.

Try a more survivable character type until you get the hang of the server. Fighters/Barbs are great suggestions. Hit hard, wear decent AC gear, and carry heaps of loot to sell to accumulate gold.

Time and learning, fair enough, but the acceptance part I disagree, because its a not a matter of accepting it - Its FORCED!

Most of my characters are currently build as very capable characters in terms of combat, most of them have strong synergy as well.

Even fighters and barbarians can still go down, in the areas that are intended for them, they're just less likely to go down and are better at surviving burst damage.

So you're saying a Monk/Warlock isn't survivable? For instance a character that pretty much has 20 str and 20 dex 18 con when buffed - are you saying such character isn't strong or capable? Because this exact character has been having issues with surviving in areas where it should be on par with the CR. This isn't a matter of getting the hang of the server, this is just a matter of the encounters I've faced.

..or a character that can stand its ground against 10 Purple Skellies for around 10minutes in the cemetary without constantly having to constantly chuck health potions, but didn't last 15 seconds against 4 standard kobolds at CR2 - does something seem off to you with what i describe? To me that seems very off. This particular character was level 2 at the cemetary and level 3-4 when it happened with the kobolds.

[Incarnate]

Semantics and irrelevant. If I have the ability to summon something of relevant strength that can help me fight, I'm going to summon it. I'm not going to ignore that it's there because I want a 'solo' experience, because I don't intentionally go out of my way to make it harder for myself.

It's certainly not irrelevant, its not comparable. Its not a matter of wanting to make it harder, because believe me, I'd use it if I had the option to. My with that was that you can't compare it with soloing with and without to soloing in general.

Again, it comes down to 1) using the loot you get to buy some cheap upgrades from other players on the auctions, and/or 2) grouping with other people to make it easier.

..and thats the point here, that it become mechanically a necessity to group to be able to survive. As for using the loot to buy cheap upgrades, well that certainly depends on the loot you've been getting and how much it has actually cost you to venture out and how much you need to be at working capacity.

You should be able to have +3 equipment in most of your slots by the time you're level 7 or 8 at the latest, which gives most classes enough AC to last them until they're level 18 ish.

Yeah? I don't.

It's not nearly as difficult as you're making it out to be. Unless you're rolling a drow or svirf rogue or wizard, but then you brought that one on yourself if you are. Or if your build makes no sense, I suppose, but that is also not the fault of the server in that case.

I also fail to see what your general aversion to grouping up is.

Maybe it is as difficult as I'm making it to be, this is based on my experiences with the server so far.

I don't have anything against grouping up - what I have "against it" is that your FORCED to because of mechanics to group up, meaning its out of necessity you group up. This means its on others terms rather than my own terms.

[dedude]

If you are struggling in a certain area, just go to another area with a lower CR. The CR of the encounters on this server is designed for (balanced) groups. So as a guideline, solo players would aim for a CR 1-4 levels below. Forget what is "normal" in your PnP games.