Coming Soon: Discussion Thread (2017)

[Arn]

Lovely. So shapechange still eats up 2 9th level spell slots for my spirit shaman. -.-

As Steve was saying, it might be because you are wearing a Wisdom item? When you shapeshift, you don't keep item bonuses because they aren't technically equipped anymore. So your Wisdom modifier drops in shapeshift, which makes you lose spell slots. When you return to your normal form, the item bonus gets reapplied because the item is re-equipped, so you regain those spell slots. But the spell slots will be empty.

As Steve said, casting Owl's Wisdom or Owl's Insight before you shapeshift will prevent this issue. (I am assuming Spirit Shamans use Wisdom for extra spells.) But if it doesn't fix the issue, then maybe Shapeshift really is using two spell slots somehow?

[Hawke]

I feel this update is really phase one. Phase 2 would be like what was said before, somehow not losing spell slots from items, either from bonus spell slots or ability modifiers.

[Valefort]

I don't think that can be achieved Hawke.

[Steve]

I don't think that can be achieved Hawke.

This might be way too much, but: can a script be attached to Polymorph/Shapechange, were it "reads" the Spell Casting Ability for X Classes/PrCs, then applies a temporary INT/WIS/CHA bonus, depending on relevance, along with the STR+DEX+CON bonuses in the Shapes?

Like with Spirit Shaman, if you have bonus item slots, when high enough level to get enough WIS bonus after casting Owl's Insight, you no longer lose slots because of the temporary Ablitity Bonus slots gained. The only thing one must do is remember to de-Shape before resting, else it can gobllygookfartcrashup your Plan, and you lose slots.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but the only thing that will gain here temporarily is Skills affected by such Ability bonuses, while Shaped? Unless there are some sneaky little extras, like Combat Insight, which would take INT if higher than STR of the shape and thus apply a bit of extra dmg (but yeah, that might be very rare, right?).

But otherwise, I was also thinking that if Nachti somehow amazingly figured out how to get Weapon properties to transfer to Polymorph Shapes with Weapons too, why can't Items transfer over as well, specifically in regard to Extra Spell Slots?

[Hawke]

This is the one thing, the only thing that has prevented me in using Polymorph and shapechange spells in the past.

So while this update is amazing, still a deal breaker if I cannot keep my spells while shifted. I am ok with not being allowed to cast while shifted, even though PnP says I can. I am really good with it, but I need to keep my spell slots.


Just losing spells from bonus slots. It can hit pretty hard.

My Drizard cast shapechange with fox on him, and he still lost about 6 spells (I dont think the fox cunning counted on shapechange).

Still with all that being said, it is awesome work in trying to make the different schools more viable and require some serious specialization! Thank you!

[Tsidkenu]

Why can't you learn to use /mspells and manage your spell slots properly, Hawke? Why?!?

[Winterborne]

I would like to humbly suggest that the Polymorph: Human spell's form be edited in some way so that it is not a creepy Nathan doppelganger using my same face, hair, and outfit. >.>

[Sun Wukong]

My Drizard cast shapechange with fox on him, and he still lost about 6 spells (I dont think the fox cunning counted on shapechange).

Drider Wizard? Druid Wizard? Drow Wizard? Name of your character?

When you Polymorph or Wildshape; if you are on a +2 'casting ability stat race' you will be transformed into a +0 'casting ability stat race' and at best Fox's Cunning will cover for a +2 'casting ability stat item' on your character. If you have better than a +2 item, the spell will no longer protect against the spell slot loss.

As for using the 'casting ability stat spell' to protect against spell slot loss, you need to look at how ability modifiers advance:

Code: Select all

Ability Modifier 	Bonus Spells per Day by Level
	 	           1 	2 	3 	4 	5 	6 	7 	8 	9
1 	    (-5) 	-- Cant cast spells tied to this ability --
2-3  	 (-4) 	-- Cant cast spells tied to this ability --
4-5 	  (-3) 	-- Cant cast spells tied to this ability --
6-7 	  (-2) 	-- Cant cast spells tied to this ability --
8-9 	  (-1) 	-- Cant cast spells tied to this ability --
10-11 	(0)
12-13 	(+1) 	1
14-15 	(+2) 	1 	1
16-17 	(+3) 	1 	1 	1
18-19 	(+4) 	1 	1 	1 	1
20-21 	(+5) 	2 	1 	1 	1 	1
22-23 	(+6) 	2 	2 	1 	1 	1 	1
24-25 	(+7) 	2 	2 	2 	1 	1 	1 	1
26-27 	(+8) 	2 	2 	2 	2 	1 	1 	1 	1
28-29 	(+9) 	3 	2 	2 	2 	2 	1 	1 	1 	1 
30-31   (+10) 	3 	3 	2 	2 	2 	2 	1 	1 	1 
32-33   (+11) 	3 	3 	3 	2 	2 	2 	2 	1 	1 
34-35   (+12) 	3 	3 	3 	3 	2 	2 	2 	2 	1
36-37   (+13) 	4 	3 	3 	3 	3 	2 	2 	2 	2
38-39   (+14) 	4 	4 	3 	3 	3 	3 	2 	2 	2
40-41   (+15) 	4 	4 	4 	3 	3 	3 	3 	2 	2
42-43   (+16) 	4 	4 	4 	4 	3 	3 	3 	3 	2
44-45   (+17) 	5 	4 	4 	4 	4 	3 	3 	3 	3
46-47   (+18) 	5 	5 	4 	4 	4 	4 	3 	3 	3
48-49   (+19) 	5 	5 	5 	4 	4 	4 	4 	3 	3
50      (+20) 	5 	5 	5 	5 	4 	4 	4 	4 	3
 

Thus for example, if you have base 30 intelligence on a +0 intelligence race, and you cast Fox's Cunning to protect against spell slot loss... You will be able to have 1 extra slot on spell levels 3, 4, 7, and 8.

Thus... If you want to play a polymorphing wizard, those spell slot items are just a bad idea.

[wangxiuming]

I would like to humbly suggest that the Polymorph: Human spell's form be edited in some way so that it is not a creepy Nathan doppelganger using my same face, hair, and outfit. >.>

[Hawke]

Why can't you learn to use /mspells and manage your spell slots properly, Hawke? Why?!?

Because when you shift back, you still lose spells. Unused spells. It makes having equipment with spell slots (and even +4 int) Utterly useless, when things are already challenging for casters in terms of "battle stamina" because of the limitation of spells in a "mmo" type setting.

I was just wondering if the change was on the board, but seems not possible.

[Hawke]

My Drizard cast shapechange with fox on him, and he still lost about 6 spells (I dont think the fox cunning counted on shapechange).

Drider Wizard? Druid Wizard? Drow Wizard? Name of your character?

Druid Wizard LOL! And he is half elf

[the_flame_of_anor]

Never shapechanged before, so a newbie question here:

Does AC and properties from gear transfer to the shapechanged form just like how wildshape does?

[Tsidkenu]

Because when you shift back, you still lose spells. Unused spells. It makes having equipment with spell slots (and even +4 int) Utterly useless, when things are already challenging for casters in terms of "battle stamina" because of the limitation of spells in a "mmo" type setting.

I was just wondering if the change was on the board, but seems not possible.

Simple fix. Polymorph with your full spell book and unpolymorph. Note which spell-slots got wiped and which ones didn't (as in, the order of spell slots, left to right - you will always lose the right-most ones first).

Then, reorganise your entire spellbook and place your constantly cast buffs in your right-most slots (you know, the slots you know will get wiped when you shapechange - you want them filled with spells you know you will cast before polymorphing). Leave reserve/offensive spells in your left-most slots. Use /mspells to preserve the setup. Perform usual buffing/summoning routine. Shapechange. All your eaten spells will be spells you already cast, making the spell slot loss an insignificant issue. When you next need a rest, clicky your /mspells hotbar slot to fill up those wiped slots, rest & go again!

[Sun Wukong]

But yeah, um, could the Hydra get two-weapon fighting? It is a hydra, it is suppose to make a lot of attacks.

[Steve]

With the 100% Spell Failure in place, a Spirit Shaman/Druid can no longer apply Greater Magic Fang or Jagged Tooth to the Shapechange forms. These spells require a animal weapon/shape to apply to, thus buffing before shaping is impossible.

Wiz/Sorc can apply Keen/GMW/Greater Heroism before buffing into either Polymorph spell.

I would like to request Fang and Tooth combo to be re-scripted to apply before Shifting.

Thank you.