New popup menu for protection from alignment interferes with casting. It doesn't seem to be possible to cast two protections in row, after the first one I got "do not equip items while casting".
Also, I'm not sure who had the amazing idea of using shapeshifting menu for this spell, that idea is horrible.
This is the kind of spell that may need to be cast quickly, without wasting rounds looking through the menu, often in buff sequences, and it should be possible to macro it via extender. Old style casting where multiple versions could selected from drop down menu worked great, and it didn't need to be changed.
The new approach is just horrible.
[Fixed]Protection from Alignment
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NegInfinity
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[Fixed]Protection from Alignment
Last edited by NegInfinity on Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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TarnishedSoul
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Re: Protection from Alignment
Admittedly, I'm not a fan of the change, either, but that's because I have my buffs in a text macro via Client Extension. The new system doesn't register that I have a preparation, so I have to cast it through manual means. It's a minor annoyance, but it'd be nice to have an option of which method is preferred.
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NegInfinity
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Re: Protection from Alignment
One thing worth pointing out is that the "dynamic window" should only be used when its content should be filled dynamically - based on character's race/alignment/whatever. Its use is only justified when using summoning spells pretty much.TarnishedSoul wrote:Admittedly, I'm not a fan of the change, either, but that's because I have my buffs in a text macro via Client Extension. The new system doesn't register that I have a preparation, so I have to cast it through manual means. It's a minor annoyance, but it'd be nice to have an option of which method is preferred.
For things like protection from alignment, this window DEFINITELY should never be used, because it was always a piece of flaming garbage - slow, poor responsiveness, and adding extra delays after casting. Original default NWN2 system is superior to it in all cases.
I would say this is a major annoyance and not a minor one. Protection from alignment is among the most used spells on the server. Messing it up for no good reason was not the right idea.
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izzul
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Re: Protection from Alignment
+1
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Endelyon
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Re: Protection from Alignment
I don't find it very cumbersome myself. I'll try to add a dialogue for it at least so you can pick your default option for it like you can with the summoning spells (this lets people bypass the popup window iirc).
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NegInfinity
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Re: Protection from Alignment
It is incredibly cumbersome on any heavy casting class, like wizard or cleric, because it cannot be normally queued, and can break casting process completely if it misfires. At which point you'll need to wait 15 minutes to rest timer to wear out. I tried using this on my character after a long break... it is truly horrible. It also doesn't support client extender macros.Endelyon wrote:I don't find it very cumbersome myself. I'll try to add a dialogue for it at least so you can pick your default option for it like you can with the summoning spells (this lets people bypass the popup window iirc).
I can understand use of the "custom window" for scenarios where there are dynamic choices (based on character alignment, like for summons), because contents of popup menu cannot be changed dynamically.
However, options of protection from alignment/circle are always the same, so there's no reason to use the window. It should be scripted to in a popup menu.
So, no matter how I look at it, it is a very horrible oversight.
By the way, "spells.txt" in neverwinter 2 files explains how to do that:
And original neverwinter 2 2da already include protection from law/chaos. Not sure if it is blank, or an actual spell, though.+-------+---------------
| AV-AZ | SubRadSpell1 - 5
+-------+---------------
These are for spells that have multiple ways of casting them. The values in these columns are the index value of "sub"-spells that will come up in another radial menu. Spells like Polymorph Self or Shapechange where you can pick a type of creature to turn into, or Shadow Conjuration where you can pick the spell to emulate. The maximum number of choices you have for a spell will be 5. The people who are planning on implementing radical new Polymorph spells where you can turn into all sorts of animals may want to look at this.
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NegInfinity
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Re: Protection from Alignment
Default option does not solve the problem.Endelyon wrote:a dialogue for it at least so you can pick your default option
It should be a popup menu, because it is frequently necessary to cast several different versions. (Protection from Evil + Protection from Good is common).
A better idea would be to provide an extra option to call the new window, but default popup menu based choices should be available. They're more convenient, work well and do not break casting sequence.
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Endelyon
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Re: Protection from Alignment
In regards to why I don't find it cumbersome it's because you can still just cast it at the end of your buff cycle without queueing it, it's not like it's a rounds per level spell.NegInfinity wrote:A better idea would be to provide an extra option to call the new window, but default popup menu based choices should be available. They're more convenient, work well and do not break casting sequence.
I'm not a great scripter myself Neg, I'm really not sure how these custom spell Uis work or why it was preferred in this case to the default UI behavior. The best I can do personally is provide a conversation option so at least people can choose the default, but I'll pass the feedback for the rest along to the devs, though.
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NegInfinity
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Re: Protection from Alignment
I usually cast two of them (protection from good, protection from evil), and if the timing isn't right, the second cast gets botched. Likewise, it may be necessary to cast it on summons and party members, so it should be possible to queue it.Endelyon wrote: In regards to why I don't find it cumbersome it's because you can still just cast it at the end of your buff cycle without queueing it, it's not like it's a rounds per level spell.
One other thing that has occured me the other day.Endelyon wrote: I'm really not sure how these custom spell Uis work or why it was preferred in this case to the default UI behavior. The best I can do personally is provide a conversation option so at least people can choose the default, but I'll pass the feedback for the rest along to the devs, though.
Have you guys tested the scripted window in situation with high ping? I'm quite positive that all activity related to the scripted window happens on the server, and that's the reason why it has poor responsiveness. Basically, there's always a small but noticeable pause before it fills the items, and when it shows up for the second time, I actually can see the items from the last use, briefly. Meanwhile, spell popup menu is handled on the client.
I really recommend to use the scripted custom UI as infrequently as possible. It is very inconvenient, and has multiple drawbacks.
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Nachti
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Re: Protection from Alignment
Well. Given its nature it was only natural to include prot vs alignment into the changes when I worked on circle vs alignment.
As a builder I prefer the new radial system above everything else, simply because it saves alot of testing & 2da work and some things wouldnt be possible without it. I gonna look at the orginal vs law chaos spells and maybe I can revert it for prot vs alignment. If not I would add an default option if Endelyon hasnt already.
As a builder I prefer the new radial system above everything else, simply because it saves alot of testing & 2da work and some things wouldnt be possible without it. I gonna look at the orginal vs law chaos spells and maybe I can revert it for prot vs alignment. If not I would add an default option if Endelyon hasnt already.
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JaceNara
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Re: Protection from Alignment
Ah so this is why i'm getting spell failures!
I have to agree that this has been a massive pain over the last 2 days. now i know that its this that's causing it i will be able to compensate but i have to say i agree that it does seem to be a bit of a negative change.
I have to agree that this has been a massive pain over the last 2 days. now i know that its this that's causing it i will be able to compensate but i have to say i agree that it does seem to be a bit of a negative change.
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Endelyon
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Re: Protection from Alignment
Just to be clear, the spell failure bug for these "menu" based spells will be resolved in the next update. Valefort has already made a change to add them to the exceptions list.JaceNara wrote:Ah so this is why i'm getting spell failures!
I have to agree that this has been a massive pain over the last 2 days. now i know that its this that's causing it i will be able to compensate but i have to say i agree that it does seem to be a bit of a negative change.
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NegInfinity
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Re: Protection from Alignment
The new system is very laggy (because it happens on the server), can't be macroed, can't be queued, and in addition to that you don't see which version you cast in combat log anymore.Nachti wrote:Well. Given its nature it was only natural to include prot vs alignment into the changes when I worked on circle vs alignment.
As a builder I prefer the new radial system above everything else, simply because it saves alot of testing & 2da work and some things wouldnt be possible without it. I gonna look at the orginal vs law chaos spells and maybe I can revert it for prot vs alignment. If not I would add an default option if Endelyon hasnt already.
As a player I prefer the old version.
I listed previously how spell.2da can be used to create popup menu entries, and in general I believe the right idea is NOT to use custom ui for spells that always offer the same choices. The custom ui window is simply very inconvenient compared to popup menu.
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Valefort
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Re: Protection from Alignment
I'll switch it to vanilla radial, I suppose there are only 4 choices ?
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NegInfinity
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Re: Protection from Alignment
Yes, only 4 choices. Vs Evil, Vs Good, Vs Law and Vs Chaos.Valefort wrote:I'll switch it to vanilla radial, I suppose there are only 4 choices ?
Switch to vanilla radial would be much appreciated.
It would make sense to add similar switch to "magic circle" (same deal - only 4 choices), but I haven't been using "circle", since last time it made my char look like an orbital strike target.
Either way, thanks for looking into it.