Coming Soon: Discussion Thread (2017)

[Apis]

Having the heal skill on a floating hotbar (the way some feats are for bear warrior) would be a big quality of life improvement.

[Valefort]

"It doesn't look like it but I'm pulling a heal kit out of my shapechanged self and applying it on my wounds, it's really happening !"

[Steve]

"It doesn't look like it but I'm pulling a heal kit out of my shapechanged self and applying it on my wounds, it's really happening !"

Drop Heal Kit, shapechange, pick up heal kit.

Or conversely, drop Heal Kit, shapechange, and roll on it, until it applies healing effect.

Or, throw Heal Kit in air, really high, shapechange, fight some creatures, return to throw-up spot on time, let Heal Kit fall on your Form, absorbing Healing properties.

See...I've been told I'm a great RPer...and I think I just proved it, once again!!!

Oh...did I mention a Heal Kit can be used in combat, normally?!? And even with Sword & Board equipped?!?! Until THAT is addressed, I think there is no fair argument against any other use of a Heal Kit.

[Apis]

"I found this potion and heal kit while changed, but even though I have hands I refuse to use them."

I see what you're saying but there are probably many angles to look at. Using a healing kit while using a two handed weapon, dual welding, or otherwise not RP-realistic scenarios are allowed for quality of life over realism, right?

[Sun Wukong]

Oh...did I mention a Heal Kit can be used in combat, normally?!? And even with Sword & Board equipped?!?! Until THAT is addressed, I think there is no fair argument against any other use of a Heal Kit.

Oh look healing kit has 'HERBS' in it. You just pinch two fingers to pull some herbs out of your belt pouch and then stuff them into your mouth.

[DiceyCZ]

Alright, then another argument - if we are gonna have items provide bonus spells since the regular gear gets transmuted into the form's gear and we don't simply stuff our old body into plane void and put on our other body...at least have regen cloaks work on forms

[dedude]

Next update will see a few additional changes for Polymorph Self and Shapechange:

Weapon Merging
This is already in effect for the Polymorph spell, but we now got it working for Shapechange as well. Only shapes using weapons will merge, and temporary effects on weapons will not merge.

Item Merging
These spells have been aligned with the wildshape mechanics, so item properties will merge in the same way they already do for druids. That means deflection AC, natural AC and armor AC will merge with shapes. Dodge AC will not merge. Item properties like skills will only merge best slot.
The AC merging comes with reduced base AC on all shapes, but items and spells will be able to offset that.

Shape Shift feat
Both spells will now work more like the PnP versions in that you can change shape at will by spending a round. Casting the spell will give you the Shape Shift feat, and while the spell remains active that feat can be used to shift shape. You still need to un-shift using the standard way of cancelling polymorph effects.
This will give some more versatility to these spells, both for RP and combat. It will also allow players to temporarily un-shift and save their character (which is not possible to do while polymorphed).

The shapes are still up for QC review and will probably see a balancing update in the future. The wiki will be updated soon-ish to reflect the changes.

[DiceyCZ]

That is brilliant, thank you. At least this way we can turn into hydra for +5 regen or one of the vamp regen forms to heal up and then shift back without having to use spell slots. Thanks!

[Steve]

Holy crap! These are great changes! Shall I detail why...or maybe it is just plain obvious!

Thanks dedude (and I shall assume, Nachti as well).

Next update will see a few additional changes for Polymorph Self and Shapechange:

Weapon Merging
This is already in effect for the Polymorph spell, but we now got it working for Shapechange as well. Only shapes using weapons will merge, and temporary effects on weapons will not merge.

Item Merging
These spells have been aligned with the wildshape mechanics, so item properties will merge in the same way they already do for druids. That means deflection AC, natural AC and armor AC will merge with shapes. Dodge AC will not merge. Item properties like skills will only merge best slot.
The AC merging comes with reduced base AC on all shapes, but items and spells will be able to offset that.

Shape Shift feat
Both spells will now work more like the PnP versions in that you can change shape at will by spending a round. Casting the spell will give you the Shape Shift feat, and while the spell remains active that feat can be used to shift shape. You still need to un-shift using the standard way of cancelling polymorph effects.
This will give some more versatility to these spells, both for RP and combat. It will also allow players to temporarily un-shift and save their character (which is not possible to do while polymorphed).

The shapes are still up for QC review and will probably see a balancing update in the future. The wiki will be updated soon-ish to reflect the changes.

[Sun Wukong]

Weapon Merging
This is already in effect for the Polymorph spell, but we now got it working for Shapechange as well. Only shapes using weapons will merge, and temporary effects on weapons will not merge.

So in other words, Greater Magic Weapon will no longer be applied to the new form. But if I have a weapon with 1 cold damage, that damage would pass over to Giant shapes? Will the weapon enchantments listed in here stay the same? How do things merge, will the highest apply? So a +4 weapon does not override the +5 on a form?

Item Merging
These spells have been aligned with the wildshape mechanics, so item properties will merge in the same way they already do for druids. That means deflection AC, natural AC and armor AC will merge with shapes. Dodge AC will not merge. Item properties like skills will only merge best slot.
The AC merging comes with reduced base AC on all shapes, but items and spells will be able to offset that.

Could you clarify how the shield AC will work? Additionally, do you require +4 items to offset the reduced base AC on all shapes? (Not that many shapes had that high ac to begin with.)

Shape Shift feat
Both spells will now work more like the PnP versions in that you can change shape at will by spending a round. Casting the spell will give you the Shape Shift feat, and while the spell remains active that feat can be used to shift shape. You still need to un-shift using the standard way of cancelling polymorph effects.
This will give some more versatility to these spells, both for RP and combat. It will also allow players to temporarily un-shift and save their character (which is not possible to do while polymorphed).

Will players be able to un-shift, re-apply buffs, and shift back? If yes, I think that is great.

[dedude]

So in other words, Greater Magic Weapon will no longer be applied to the new form. But if I have a weapon with 1 cold damage, that damage would pass over to Giant shapes? Will the weapon enchantments listed in here stay the same? How do things merge, will the highest apply? So a +4 weapon does not override the +5 on a form?

GMW will not be applied, only permanent properties on the weapon. So the 1 cold damage will merge. Highest will apply, just as when you cast GMW +5 on a +3 weapon.

Could you clarify how the shield AC will work? Additionally, do you require +4 items to offset the reduced base AC on all shapes? (Not that many shapes had that high ac to begin with.)

The AC merging works just like it does for druid wildshape. 1/2 your shield AC enhancement bonus is merged. +3 items will offset this change. Most AC types are covered by spells though, so for arcane deflection is the important one, and for shaman it is the armor and shield enhancements.

Will players be able to un-shift, re-apply buffs, and shift back? If yes, I think that is great.

Yes.

[Sun Wukong]

What would happen with the Shield spell that grants +4 shield enchantment AC. Will it be halved?

[dedude]

No, the shield spell isn't an item enhancement, it will stay as normal. Which also means that arcanes probably don't need to worry about wearing a shield when morphing.

[aaron22]

would GMW work if it was cast on the poly/shape after it has changed? what about shield spell?

[NegInfinity]

"It doesn't look like it but I'm pulling a heal kit out of my shapechanged self and applying it on my wounds, it's really happening !"

You can always try to puke a piece equipment out.
Extra fun if you're polymorphed into a small animal. Extra fun if that animal is reduced in size.

Actually that's probably quite terrifying to behold and maybe not even PG-13 compatible.

Then again, a lot of shapes have no opposable thumbs, so...

would GMW work if it was cast on the poly/shape after it has changed? what about shield spell?

GMW is not supposed to work on natural weapons like fangs or fists. That's what "Magic Fang" is for.

Shield spell should apply on top of whatever shape you take, because it is not an item property.