How higher difficulty might encourage OOC behaviour.

[aaron22]

the OOC portion of the assistance does not need to be OOC. I can do it IC but i really doubt your moon elf (said in a rather displeasing mockery style of how rich people talk) would ever lower herself to get fighting lessons from the greatest fighting force in the whole planet. GREY ORCS.

its only OOC if you make it OOC.

ex.

level 13 monk heads to xvarts
you grab one and pull him back and see how hard it hits and how hard you hit it.
you try out some stunning fist on the second one
run away and take what you learned
now go and try to see what the caster one does
run away. the summon and call lightning hurt
you dodged it best you could. maybe i should get some lightning protection
and maybe i should take this bulls str potion so my KD will work better
etc etc etc
only OOC if you make it OOC

[Hoihe]

the OOC portion of the assistance does not need to be OOC. I can do it IC but i really doubt your moon elf (said in a rather displeasing mockery style of how rich people talk) would ever lower herself to get fighting lessons from the greatest fighting force in the whole planet. GREY ORCS.

its only OOC if you make it OOC.

ex.

level 13 monk heads to xvarts
you grab one and pull him back and see how hard it hits and how hard you hit it.
you try out some stunning fist on the second one
run away and take what you learned
now go and try to see what the caster one does
run away. the summon and call lightning hurt
you dodged it best you could. maybe i should get some lightning protection
and maybe i should take this bulls str potion so my KD will work better
etc etc etc
only OOC if you make it OOC

True, but people will go in to new areas their characters never visited fully prepared for the local creatures already. We even provide them with the info necessary on OOC channels already.

[Xanfyrst]

It would be less of a problem if the mechanics allowed a level 1 to be as good as a level 30 in pure power while the level 30 would just have more toys to play around with.

[aaron22]

but we are not talking about people. we are trying to tell you that you dont need to do what others are doing to succeed. you can play how you want and still succeed. as long as you use your IC knowledge that you are gaining and using it.

the server caters to many differing styles and your style is in that list.

you may not realize, but RP oriented characters have advantages that grinders/looters dont have. lots of them.

[Nemni]

Especially when I complain about the nonviability of blasters. The instant one does that, they get "Well, if you round up all the mobs in the map and then cast your spells, you'll outdo fighters!" In new player wizard guides, you get recommended that too.

A lot of people agree that blasters are underwhelming. The trick is to come up with a way to fix that playstyle without an overall empowerment of already strong classes (wiz/sorc).

[NegInfinity]

Here I would like to argue that OOC behaviour is born not from lack of OOC consequence, but rather due to difficulty requiring one to act OOC if they wish to compete.

Rather than engaging in a forum argument that will result in nothing useful in the game world, I would rather prefer to interact with people's characters instead.

In this game you have difficulty bar as high or as low as you want. You can keep it safe, or you can go fight pitfiend with a stick and no equipment, entirely up to you.

So, it is your choice, and nobody force you to do anything.

Your last two threads, however, reminds me of one observation I made in the past:

Simply having an OOC community tends to have negative impact on the quality of the in-game experience, roleplaying and the believability of the settings.

Typically it means that as long as you don't know who you're interacting with and do not engage in community communitcation, you'll have the time of your life. However, as soon as you discover actual community, you'll be exposed to numerous ... weird ideas some people might have. For example, I saw people freak out because of a forum rumor and quit altogether on antoher server. Then there are people who repeatedly try to rally for some ooc change. Then there are guys who would murder people over the subtle details in rules somewhere. Then there are "I know one true way to play and if you disagree, you're a bad person". Then there are forum squabbles that end up in OOC IG grievances. And more and more.

Back when I started playing on bgtscc for the first time, I had the "time in my life" - it was literally the best game I ever player - till I ran into one cretin who decided that he(she?) has the right to lecture me based on incorrect assumption. The magic shattered, and I never had it restored ever since.

So, why not just do it right for once.

Instead of wasting time for pages of OOC discussion that neither does anything useful nor contributes to actual in-game experience in any meaningful fashion...

Why just not drop all of it. All the ideas theories arguments, etc, and just head into the game and play it.

In all honesty, It is irritating to see HUGE forum discussions while at the same time having trouble of bumping into, well... anyone In-game. Would be nice if this energy was directed into the game instead.

[Wolfrayne]

OOC should be handled in an OOC matter. If someone is breaking rules OOC then they should be punished as such.

However IC actions as it stands have little to NO IC consequences. You can argue until you are black and blue in the face about "not enforcing IC actions OC" as much as you want but the fact of the matter is if you do something IC that warrants that character being PERMENANTLY killed then you should accept that.

Let me give you an example to put things in my perspective.

I have a character who is a Sharan. If one of my fellow sharans was to become a threat to my identity or the guild because they were betraying the trust of the guild and were found out IC and then they were "Killed" in my mind that should be the end of it Shar does not give any mercy.

If that character decides that they dont want to "perma" and would rather "wipe their memory" they had better be ready to accept that fact that i will continue to HUNT THEM DOWN AND KILL THEM as that is MY CHARACTER. There is no way he would ever just simply sit back like "Oh look that person betrayed the entire guild and did all this bad stuff but that is perfectly fine now because they dont remember"

Bullcrap. Absolute bullcrap.

Yes. we plan characters and such and there is a lot of OOC information involved. But that doesnt give you the right to simply ignore what happens IC.

[kellendril]

I have often thought that the RCR might be bad for the single reason that the players can build and rebuild in an effort to maximize their PC. A sliding scale is impossible to balance against.

[Reckeo]

Here I would like to argue that OOC behaviour is born not from lack of OOC consequence, but rather due to difficulty requiring one to act OOC if they wish to compete.

Rather than engaging in a forum argument that will result in nothing useful in the game world, I would rather prefer to interact with people's characters instead.

In this game you have difficulty bar as high or as low as you want. You can keep it safe, or you can go fight pitfiend with a stick and no equipment, entirely up to you.

So, it is your choice, and nobody force you to do anything.

Your last two threads, however, reminds me of one observation I made in the past:

Simply having an OOC community tends to have negative impact on the quality of the in-game experience, roleplaying and the believability of the settings.

Typically it means that as long as you don't know who you're interacting with and do not engage in community communitcation, you'll have the time of your life. However, as soon as you discover actual community, you'll be exposed to numerous ... weird ideas some people might have. For example, I saw people freak out because of a forum rumor and quit altogether on antoher server. Then there are people who repeatedly try to rally for some ooc change. Then there are guys who would murder people over the subtle details in rules somewhere. Then there are "I know one true way to play and if you disagree, you're a bad person". Then there are forum squabbles that end up in OOC IG grievances. And more and more.

Back when I started playing on bgtscc for the first time, I had the "time in my life" - it was literally the best game I ever player - till I ran into one cretin who decided that he(she?) has the right to lecture me based on incorrect assumption. The magic shattered, and I never had it restored ever since.

So, why not just do it right for once.

Instead of wasting time for pages of OOC discussion that neither does anything useful nor contributes to actual in-game experience in any meaningful fashion...

Why just not drop all of it. All the ideas theories arguments, etc, and just head into the game and play it.

In all honesty, It is irritating to see HUGE forum discussions while at the same time having trouble of bumping into, well... anyone In-game. Would be nice if this energy was directed into the game instead.

Extremely thought provoking and well articulated. Thank you for this.

[KOPOJIbPAKOB]

What I see is that TS tries to impute her own issues to the community.

The powerbuilding exists, but I doubt that powerbuilders make even a half of community, and plus powerbuilding is not an obstacle to the quaility RP.

For me personally sticking to the strict plan is boring, it kills all the fun. For example I rolled an alchemist character, but further RP events made me develop him as a pale master. One old player told me a story that she had a very strong builded drow character who was impossible to defeat in PvP, but after some roleplay events (she lost a patronage of her deity and was exiled from the UD) she RCR'ed her powerbuilded lvl 30 character into a weak fighter. So the problem is in you.

Also about knowledge of spawn rates, chest locations etc - this is a human factor. You can't make yourself forget about all of these. And if you create a new toon who tells to every companion he parties with that "hey I know where we can grind with more profit" - the problem is in you.

For me this server is about RP, not powerbuilding and mindless grind (which is boring as hell) or PvP (which is very restricted and is a reason for OOC drama). If you lost an interest to play - just admit it, no need to blame the system, community or whatever.

[KOPOJIbPAKOB]

Here I would like to argue that OOC behaviour is born not from lack of OOC consequence, but rather due to difficulty requiring one to act OOC if they wish to compete.

Rather than engaging in a forum argument that will result in nothing useful in the game world, I would rather prefer to interact with people's characters instead.

In this game you have difficulty bar as high or as low as you want. You can keep it safe, or you can go fight pitfiend with a stick and no equipment, entirely up to you.

So, it is your choice, and nobody force you to do anything.

Your last two threads, however, reminds me of one observation I made in the past:

Simply having an OOC community tends to have negative impact on the quality of the in-game experience, roleplaying and the believability of the settings.

Typically it means that as long as you don't know who you're interacting with and do not engage in community communitcation, you'll have the time of your life. However, as soon as you discover actual community, you'll be exposed to numerous ... weird ideas some people might have. For example, I saw people freak out because of a forum rumor and quit altogether on antoher server. Then there are people who repeatedly try to rally for some ooc change. Then there are guys who would murder people over the subtle details in rules somewhere. Then there are "I know one true way to play and if you disagree, you're a bad person". Then there are forum squabbles that end up in OOC IG grievances. And more and more.

Back when I started playing on bgtscc for the first time, I had the "time in my life" - it was literally the best game I ever player - till I ran into one cretin who decided that he(she?) has the right to lecture me based on incorrect assumption. The magic shattered, and I never had it restored ever since.

So, why not just do it right for once.

Instead of wasting time for pages of OOC discussion that neither does anything useful nor contributes to actual in-game experience in any meaningful fashion...

Why just not drop all of it. All the ideas theories arguments, etc, and just head into the game and play it.

In all honesty, It is irritating to see HUGE forum discussions while at the same time having trouble of bumping into, well... anyone In-game. Would be nice if this energy was directed into the game instead.

+1 to this, especially about stupid OOC lecturing. I am fed with shit like "You rolled a half-drow but your skin is not grey enough accoding to blahblahblah so I recommend you RCR" or "You left a note near the FAI but there were guards nearby this means you were godmodding them stop doing it".

[the_flame_of_anor]

Hoihe, with all due respect, I found your proposed arguments in your recent couple of threads very hard to get through. You attempt to boil things down to conditionals like “if Y, then X”, or linear formulas like X= mQ + nP, or statistical correlations like if A goes up, then B will go up too etc etc. But seriously, this game world we all love, much like the real world, doesn’t work in such a contrived reductionist manner, does it? If you really must do it, then at least identify the whole slew of predictor, criterion, moderating, mediating, confounding variables yada yada, and you would soon realize that it’s not that simple and reductive. I’m obviously being very blunt here. Truth is you have some very interesting starting points for discussion but the whole academic dressing-up is very unnecessary and ineffective methinks!

[Reckeo]

Hoihe, with all due respect, I found your proposed arguments in your recent couple of threads very hard to get through. You attempt to boil things down to conditionals like “if Y, then X”, or linear formulas like X= mQ + nP, or statistical correlations like if A goes up, then B will go up too etc etc. But seriously, this game world we all love, much like the real world, doesn’t work in such a contrived reductionist manner, does it? If you really must do it, then at least identify the whole slew of predictor, criterion, moderating, mediating, confounding variables yada yada, and you would soon realize that it’s not that simple and reductive. I’m obviously being very blunt here. Truth is you have some very interesting starting points for discussion but the whole academic dressing-up is very unnecessary and ineffective methinks!

This. I was trying to put it into words but just couldn't bring myself to it as it involves a lot of things I simply left behind me after college. The truth is well stated above, real life is not static and when considering.....you know what, I'm just gonna stop right there and say yes.

[Hoihe]

If you do not boil things down to the problem points, you'll get lost in details as you end up trying to balance everything. It's better to focus on the key problems, then think about the lesser issues.

[Valefort]

The way you present things is completely detrimental though, it's a pseudo mathematical formalization that obfuscates your points and makes you look like a fraud as it brings nothing but confusion while claiming to be precise.