Monthly 100% RCR

[chad878262]

How about instead of making it easier for people to just jump in to epic levels we try and focus on making content that is fun at all levels so it doesnt feel like a grind?

Personally im against RCR in general. There really is no point to it unless you make a mistake or you are retiring a character. I would be more interested in seeing things like "reading books gives some XP/Lore skills" or "cooking a meal gives some RP XP"

The problem being of course that people are more concerned about "Hitting Epic to participate in things and not be outclassed by every epic" and therefore the minority of people who would abuse these kind of things with scripts and the like ruin it for everyone else.

Give people more options, punish those who abuse it. instead of simply saying "no because x might abuse it"

I like this post. And honestly as far as participating in events goes, a savvy DM and players can get around a lower level player being 'outclassed' by epics. I posted in the thank you thread quite some time ago when my level 8 PC (now level 30, but at that time was low level) became an important part of an event to track down a thief for one of the farmers in the Eastern farm lands. Even though all of the other players were ** or *** my character went and searched where others were not looking, and thanks to having decent Search and Spot investment, along with some lucky rolls he found some things the others did not...Admittedly this was helped by most of the other characters apparently having very limited investment in search as well. After the event I was asked if I wanted to travel South to hunt Frost Giants... Amazing what a level 8 can do even among epic characters.

Really DG said it well. You do not have to be epic to RP, to participate in events, or to tell your characters story. As to Xanyfirsts statement about Eliphas...as someone who read his stories when I first joined the server I am very glad for the player and character having told it with all of the others involved. However, it seems that starting at level 20 was perfectly acceptable within that context. IMO there are just far more issues with free RCR to 30 then there are benefits... In fact I would say the benefits are minor in comparison to the issues it brings.

[NegInfinity]

Really DG said it well. You do not have to be epic to RP, to participate in events, or to tell your characters story.

The caveat is - "it depends on the character concept". Some concepts have to start at certain level. Could be level 4, 6, or 20. As indicated by Xanfyrst's post.

As for "making content more fun"... it is a noble goal that should be pursued, but it is a long term investment that will start paying off months later. Meanwhile periodical 100% RCR can be made avialable now with less effort.

[chad878262]

Really DG said it well. You do not have to be epic to RP, to participate in events, or to tell your characters story.

The caveat is - "it depends on the character concept". Some concepts have to start at certain level. Could be level 4, 6, or 20. As indicated by Xanfyrst's post.

As for "making content more fun"... it is a noble goal that should be pursued, but it is a long term investment that will start paying off months later. Meanwhile periodical 100% RCR can be made avialable now with less effort.

Xanyfirst's example was done with RCR as is with level 20 start. D&D is set up to start at level 1, but house rules or a specific campaign might allow for different starting level... Our house rule allows you to start as high as level 20, which accounts for a number of concepts, but doesn't allow for a new level 30 to pop up every other day as players continually do so. I believe Valefort said that having everyone just restarting as level 30's would make 90% of the content of the server invalid. Why would we want that?

[Xanfyrst]

I personally wouldn't care one bit if it's 100% RCR all the time, but that said... if I have to settle with a specific schedule, I'd want it to happen often enough.

I don't know if I'm the only one, but I feel like the current RCR system makes me feel like I've wasted my time in getting xp for the lost levels on the old character.

[aaron22]

I don't know if I'm the only one, but I feel like the current RCR system makes me feel like I've wasted my time in getting xp for the lost levels on the old character.

this is where i think my disconnect is with those that are pro 100% rcr. i have no idea what the game is to a player that considers the above quote.

and that is fine.. we all play a different game. go play your's

[Sun Wukong]

I don't know if I'm the only one, but I feel like the current RCR system makes me feel like I've wasted my time in getting xp for the lost levels on the old character.

And once again, it is the issue with Sorcerer/Bard spell books and to lesser degree with Favored Soul/Spirit Shaman, because whenever some new spell is added or if a bad spell is picked up - you basically have to RCR to fix it.

[Steve]

If there was/to be a 100% RCR, I could imagine it a once-a-year type of thing, for a week (or 2). You snooze, you lose.

That way, there is some form of "guarantee" that a Character may stick around for a whole year, perhaps to coincide with yearly server wide campaigns, or just long-term player initiatives.

I understand the idea behind wanting to start a rather powerful character at lvl 20+, so you can have some form of "leverage" to whatever power-play the Character is involved in. Obviously, this benefits the more evil-type character, because Evils do struggle to be CvC-bait and often PvP-bait, as soon as they are identified.

Nonetheless, GROWTH is part-and-parcel to this game, to D & D. Hello! Experience points. LOL. If you have no more reason to gain experience—as in a Lvl 30 straight out the box—you ignore that fundamental. And that isn't cool.

Once a year. A Player could then have an annual opportunity to fix those "problems" after new content is added. Or, retire a Character and start again.

Or how about never-more-than-90% RCR !!!

[Thorsson]

Or how about unlimited 100% RCR. What could possibly go wrong?

[adobongmanok]

If there was/to be a 100% RCR, I could imagine it a once-a-year type of thing, for a week (or 2). You snooze, you lose.

That way, there is some form of "guarantee" that a Character may stick around for a whole year, perhaps to coincide with yearly server wide campaigns, or just long-term player initiatives.

I understand the idea behind wanting to start a rather powerful character at lvl 20+, so you can have some form of "leverage" to whatever power-play the Character is involved in. Obviously, this benefits the more evil-type character, because Evils do struggle to be CvC-bait and often PvP-bait, as soon as they are identified.

Nonetheless, GROWTH is part-and-parcel to this game, to D & D. Hello! Experience points. LOL. If you have no more reason to gain experience—as in a Lvl 30 straight out the box—you ignore that fundamental. And that isn't cool.

Once a year. A Player could then have an annual opportunity to fix those "problems" after new content is added. Or, retire a Character and start again.

Or how about never-more-than-90% RCR !!!

Or better yet, we could be rewarded a 100% RCR token once a year in our inventory...

[Valefort]

Why not, a token could be granted on each character's anniversary, allowing for a rebuild of the character. Its use would have to be overseen by a DM to make sure the changes are marginal and likely reflecting the RP that occured for that character.

As for people who want to try new concepts without having to go through a growth phase that's exactly what the RCR system can be used for. The experience loss is there in order to limit silly uses (same character wildly changing, throwaway characters), as well as making sure the server doesn't become a bunch of level 30 characters. Admit those are real consequences of a 100% RCR system, put yourself in the shoes of server staff and draw your own conclusions.

[Calodan]

Why not, a token could be granted on each character's anniversary, allowing for a rebuild of the character. Its use would have to be overseen by a DM to make sure the changes are marginal and likely reflecting the RP that occured for that character.

As for people who want to try new concepts without having to go through a growth phase that's exactly what the RCR system can be used for. The experience loss is there in order to limit silly uses (same character wildly changing, throwaway characters), as well as making sure the server doesn't become a bunch of level 30 characters. Admit those are real consequences of a 100% RCR system, put yourself in the shoes of server staff and draw your own conclusions.

Can you please explain how RP does not care about level mechanics and how level mechanics have no effect on RP but somehow a server of level 30s would impact RP? I am just not seeing it the same way. So perhaps you can help me see your point of view and the staffs point of view?

[Egg Shen]

Brace yourselves! Long one incoming!

I'm for more frequent 100% RCR'ing. Personally, unlimited would be fine with me, but of course this does invalidate the 3b20 rule. *shrugs* Maybe if you can bypass the rule via the RCR, then you've "earned" it, in a sense.

I think we all agree that RCR'ing into a different character mechanically, but trying to keep the same in-game knowledge and name and all that jazz is terrible. So we just make a rule that says don't do that. If you do it and get reported, you get smacked down by the dm's.

OR, if we don't want to bother the dm's with it, those of us who are so inclined can allow them to see how their choices impact the gameworld by doing what we think our characters really might in such a scenario. In a world with magic and dopplegangers and masters of disguise and gods know what else, would you trust somebody who couldn't hum the most basic melody one day, but the next was a virtuoso performer? How would you feel if a friend you'd known for years apparently knew how to heal wounds this whole time, but let you suffer with countless injuries while they seemingly horded the magic for themselves? Maybe we just straight up call them imposters and set them to hostile. "Prepare to DIE doppleganger!" We all know the tale of Durlag, after all.

As for why I'd like more frequent RCR's, there are a couple reasons. I'll share in case there are a lot of people like me, and perhaps this can help some in the opposing camp see things from our pov. One, the game has changed for me as I've gotten older. And two, much like Flasmix, I hate the grind.

As real life responsibilities pile up, I find that I can log on semi-frequently, bur rarely for more than an hour or two. When I first came back after a very long hiatus, I had a fun (tired?) amnesia backstory and tried to pick up with Bregan D'earthe roleplay again. I'd log on, stop by the guild hall, catch up on what was happening with plots and schemes and whatnot. Offer a few pithy remarks, maybe a suggestion, and then it would be time to log off. A few days or maybe a week later, the same thing would happen. Rinse and Repeat. I was always in catch up mode. Such short play sessions don't really lend themselves particularly well to in-depth roleplay. And certainly not for both in depth roleplay AND some good ol' fashioned adventuring.

So why bother playing? Games these days don't offer the depth in character building that nwn2 does. There are SO many options and combos and feats and skills, especially now. When I left, we didn't have nearly so many prestige classes and custom feats and whatnot (and they all seem well balanced, so kudos to QC and everybody else who implemented them). Call me crazy, but I like 3.5ed. It still has some goofy dnd charm (memorized spells, lol, what IS that?), but it's been simplified and streamlined in a lot of ways. I dig it.

And I like joining forces with and/or pitting myself against living and breathing friends/foes. DM events are okay, too, if you have time for them. The balance here is better than the single player game as well, and there are really only so many playthroughs of the campaign that I can do. BGTSCC is really a good server overall, so this is where we all end up. I've played the game so much, that for pvp scenarios (roleplay and combat related), I tend to prefer an even playing field. And thankfully, there is a max level here where we all end up. This is good, and it's why at this point, I definitely prefer high level play.

Now, hating the grind isn't going to change, no matter how amazing you make the content. If you can solve it, then you need to design a real MMO and make a bajillion dollars. But that isn't something to be ashamed of. People wanting to play level 30's doesn't mean the rest of the server is sucky or somehow invalidated. It means we've walked that path before, and while its good, great even if you have a regular adventuring party, and straight up amazing if you have that + an interested DM, it's just not going to be something we want to slog through every time we want to try out something new. Seeing if it pans out at the highest levels currently takes a LONG time, and if it doesn't??? Blech. Back to 20 is a bummer for sure.

[Egg Shen]

Also, 100% RCR'ing doesn't actually increase the number of level 30's, does it? Just the number of level 30's that people are interested in playing?

[NegInfinity]

Also, 100% RCR'ing doesn't actually increase the number of level 30's, does it? Just the number of level 30's that people are interested in playing?

That's a very good point, actually.

The previous post was a good one as well.

[Reckeo]

People are just pro-restrictions because it gives them a sense of "I'm awesome and at the top and you aren't? too bad, *I* made the right build from the get go that magically has avoided all nerf hammers and I'm also friend's with a DM/programmer/designer so I can fix any mistakes or retcon any bad spells I may have chosen anyway"

Seriously? I have a level 21 Fighter/Tempest/Whirling Dervish named Silverian. Does anybodies characters know him? I highly doubt it since I rage-quit the server for 4 years because of....you guess it, restrictions. No one missed me or my characters when I stopped playing years ago I am sure, and no one would miss me if I vanished now.

So what exactly, is the problem, precisely, if I RCR'd this character NO ONE KNOWS OR REMEMBERS into something else entirely, while keeping the XP I gained on that character? I'm not such a piss-poor RPer that I'm going to be running around swinging heavy ego acting like I'm the man (subsequently, Silverian as a character has a big EGO, and a horrible name, as he was based on a character design I created when I was 15 and angry and undergoing puberty, yeah, I wanna RCR him, 100% or not, but the 100% would be freakin' nice and I missed the window).

But everyone else is too busy claiming all the reasons why *I*, as a player, cannot do this because it wouldn't fit......wait, what doesn't it fit with again? NO ONE KNOWS HIM!!!!!! And he SUCKS mechanically BTW, his AC is too low for any kind of epic content, even lower level content is a threat to him, even with the best armor he can buy and two +4 katanas, HE SUCKS. He was the best mechanically oriented character I could make because yeah, I wanted to succeed and move on the higher level content and continue PROGRESSION. This was halted drastically, and he has been sitting on my account unused since.

I dunno about other players, but I had a really hard time on this server when I first started. I was new to NWN2 period, but NOT RP. I'm a kick-ass PNP DM, I write my own damn settings and my friends all BEG me to DM, I just don't have the time anymore. Moving on: I died on this server within 3 minutes after I rolled my first character and went into the Graveyard. Killed by the first zombie/skeleton what have you. I've died several dozens times since then I am sure, and getting that first piece of +1 armor was a god-send.

This game is extremely punishing to people who don't know the mechanics inside and out. Chose the wrong spell that was changed? Well, gotta be buddies with a DM (no disrespect here intended, but these guys are super busy and they are time limited as well), or you gotta take an XP hit. Seriously? I as a player, need to take a time investment hit, because as a player I was unaware until after I chose XXX such a spell, that it was broken or doesn't perform correctly?

And the response from the majority of people is this: "If you don't like it, play another game" etc etc.

Get your attitudes in check people. Telling people to play other games or increasing restrictions is only going to cost you the pool of people that are newer to the game because it's seriously creating an atmosphere of faux elitism and snobs that's going to turn away any other role players that just want to have fun, progress, and level up because that's right: It's a game. Progression is nice. Going through a dungeon and getting that weapon or armor upgrade and gaining a new skill is NICE. Running around and killing the same monsters over and over and over again for an epic level is not. All of these excuses for "But it ruins the RP", is absolute garbage.

The sad/funny thing at the same time is....no one needs to tell me to play another game. After grinding as long as I have at these levels and barely being able to even see any of the epic level content ((I'm stuck at the lower level areas since I started playing)), I've probably seen less than 40% of what this server has to offer. And instead of support, all anyone ever does is try to impose restrictions, throw around heavy worded arguments, and lots of other disrespectful nonsense.

This server and its community drives people away on it's own, no one needs to tell anyone to 'go play another game', when they can happily do that themselves.