Warlock Invocation Updates

[NegInfinity]

Or the Devil realizes, as others have pointed out, that the existence of this character in the world will cause more evil and inevitably bring more souls into the fold (perhaps by other teens willing to make the same deal).

Except that as far as I know it doesn't work this way in forgotten realms.

Forgotten realms are exempt from standard dnd mechanics where mortal's soul end in specific plane based on their alignment, and instead the souls are handed over to gods after being juded in Fugue Plane. So, for a devil it is more reasonable to try to convince people from fugue, instead of waiting for some country bumpkin to maybe cause more evil in the world.

In FR it'll be more reasonable to kill the mortal on the spot and get guaranteed soul. If the newly found warlock will go and wipe out the whole village in which he/she was born, the souls would probably go to the Chauntea or someone like that.

It is not profitable. Sowing evil in the world would work great in greyhawk though.

Warlocks already can turn into Hellhounds. The lore you're citing has already been broken. Let them turn into other creatures that suit their individual pacts, I say, and end it rightly. *pommel throw*

Hellspawned Grace exists in lore, except that it is supposed to turn warlock into hellcat and not into hellhound. This one could be altered to use something to pose as hellcat model, though.

So, institute versions of the spell to let them turn into other nasty critters that better suit the other pacts.

Uh, if you're good aligned, don't learn how to raise zombies and don't turn into devils or something? I don't recall any reason to think that entity that grants power has a say in what kind of powers the warlock will get. As I said - the entities are not gods, and invocations are not spells.

And finally, if the creation of new invocations made warlocks more interesting and fun to play without breaking game balance? I say go for it. We'll have to disagree there.

There's a truckload of lore-friendly invocation which are not in the game and are relatively easy to implement (stuff like serpent tongue). If you want more variety, those can be implemented instead.

I've posted the list earlier.

I basically want a shred of respect to the lore and not "I want random powers for no reason".

And, of course, modifying EXISTING invocations and adding new forms will impact the game's "balance" and affect existing builds too...

P.S. Also this is getting tiresome and not going in any useful direction.

[Khazrak]

Except that as far as I know it doesn't work this way in forgotten realms.

Forgotten realms are exempt from standard dnd mechanics where mortal's soul end in specific plane based on their alignment, and instead the souls are handed over to gods after being juded in Fugue Plane. So, for a devil it is more reasonable to try to convince people from fugue, instead of waiting for some country bumpkin to maybe cause more evil in the world.

In FR it'll be more reasonable to kill the mortal on the spot and get guaranteed soul. If the newly found warlock will go and wipe out the whole village in which he/she was born, the souls would probably go to the Chauntea or someone like that.

It is not profitable. Sowing evil in the world would work great in greyhawk though.

Let's play some scenarios then, shall we?

1. Devil makes contract with young teen. Teen revels in newfound power. Devil offers more power if young teen gets more young teens to make a devilish pact for power in return for their souls. Young teen agrees. Young teen may not succeed, and may even die in the process, but the Devil can easily get more than one soul this way. If the teen fails, the Devil gets their soul anyway. Win-win.

2. Devil makes contract with a mortal. Devil has a reason for wanting to kill person X. Devil commands warlock to kill person X. Either the person succeeds, thus accomplishing the goal, or dies, giving the Devil a soul, or both. If they try to break the contract, the Devil kills them, getting their soul. Win-win.

3. Devil makes contract with a mortal. Devil does not like this mortal. Devil gets this person to kill an angry youth's parents. Devil has an inferior make contact with this youth, promising them the power and the chance to kill the one that murdered their family. If youth accepts, youth becomes another soul for the Devil's collection, and potentially kills the pesky mortal. If they fail, the original mortal has proven useful enough, reminded of their place, and can be sent on other missions. Win-win.

I could do this all day. Once the devil in question has someone's soul, it's very unlikely they'll get it back - so why not use that individual to their fullest potential? A wasted opportunity is a disgraceful shame.

P.S. Also this is getting tiresome and not going in any useful direction.

You may stop debating whenever you wish.

[NegInfinity]

Let's play some scenarios then, shall we?

No, I refuse.

I've specified my position, and there's 3 pages of reasoning for anyone interested.

Also, there is a previous list of lore-friendly suggestion available here:
https://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?t=54639&p=690309

Hidden: show

I think following invocations could be interesting to have:

Least:

• Artificer's Assistant: Least, 2nd; Conjures an invisible assistant that grants +6 to all Craft checks for 24 hours.
• Earthen Grasp: Least, 2nd; Conjure a earthen hand at close range for 2 rounds/level on earth, mud, grass, or sand; Hand is equal to Med creature with BAB = CL, Str = 14 +2/3xCL. Arm doesn't move from its space, but it can grapple a foe in its space or any adjacent space. If no foes are in reach, it attacks a target at random in range, if any. Each round the hand pins a target, it deals 1d6 to target. Arm has AC 14, hardness 4, and 3HP/CL
• Summon Swarm: Least, 2nd; Summon Swarm for only as long as you concentrate.
• Call of the Beast: Least, 2nd; Wild Empathy as a druid of your level and Speak with Animals for 24 hours.
• Serpent's Tongue: Least, 2nd; Gain Scent and +5 to saves against poison for 24 hours.
• Hideous Shot: Least, 1st, Blast Shape; Channel eldritch blast into projectile or thrown object as a part of a single ranged attack.
• Cloak of Shadows: Least, 1st; +6 to Hide, Sleight of Hand, and Move Silently for 24 hours.
• Shrouding Transformation: Least, 2nd; Alter Self on self for 24 hours, but can not be a different size category than your normal size.

Lesser:

• Hungry Darkness: Lesser, 3rd; Create stationary Darkness effect filled with swarms of bats, attacking all creatures within except you for 1d6 damage as a Swarm, lasts with concentration + 2 rounds. If the bat swarm is destroyed, Hungry Darkness ends.
• Stony Grasp: Lesser, 3rd; As Earthen Grasp, but any natural surface, AC 18, hardness 8, and 4 HP/CL.
• Baneful Blast: Lesser, 3rd, Blast essence; When gained, pick a creature type as a Ranger's favored enemy - this blast deals an additional 2d6 damage to that creature type. This invocation can be taken multiple times for separate creature types, and it can not be changed once selected unless retrained.
• Crawling Eye: Lesser, 3rd; Detach one of your eyes to move on its own with a move and climb speed of 20 feet. Directing the eye requires a move action. Its Climb modifier is equal to 8+CL, and its Hide and Move Silently are equal to your CL. It is considered a Fine creature with 2 HP and AC of 20. When you use this invocation, your HP are reduced by 2 for the duration of this effect. For all other purposes, its stats are equal to yours. You can't cast spells or invocations through the eye, but any effects that affect your vision function through the eye as though it was still attached. If it is destroyed, you are dazzled for 1d4 rounds while the eye regrows, and you regain the 2 HP at the end of this time. You may only have one Crawling eye at a time.
• Disembodied Hand: Lesser, 4th; Detach one of your hands to float in the air. You may still use it as though it were still attached in every way, but it still requires that you expend actions to use it accordingly, and any touch attack you deliver with it must be cast before you use this invocation. The hand can move through the air at 30 feet. When you use this invocation, your HP are reduced by 5 while it is in effect, and the hand is considered a Diminutive creature with AC 20 and HP 5. Its Hide and Move silently modifiers are equal to your CL, and its other statistics are equal to yours. If it is destroyed, it regrows in 1d4 rounds at which time you regain the 5 HP lost. You may only have one Disembodied hand at a time.
• Mask of Flesh: Lesser, 3rd; Take on the physical form of a living creature of your own size with a touch attack. If you desire, you may impose a 1d6 Cha penalty to the target, but the Charisma can't be lower than 1. Will save negates both effects, and a creature that saved can not be affected for another 24 hours. Both effects last for 1 hour per CL; If you dismiss the invocation, both effects end.
• Eldritch Ward: Lesser, 4th; Surrounded by swirling eldritch energies that provide a deflection AC bonus equal to your Eldritch Blast dice as well as granting a resistance bonus to saves against spells equal to your Eldritch Blast dice for one minute. While Eldritch Ward is active, the warlock may not use his Eldritch Blast ability. The caster may dismiss this invocation effect as a standard action.

Greater:

• Warlock’s Call: Greater, 5th; Sending, but a creature unwilling to reply can attempt a Will save to deal 1d10 points of damage back to you.
• Painful Slumber of Ages: Greater, 6th, Mind-affecting; Cause one living creature at close range to enter an indefinite state of sleep if they fail the Will save. Normal stimuli is insufficient to wake them, but any damage received rouses them instantly, but they also take damage equal to your CL when this happens. They also receive an additional save every 24 hours to wake from their slumber for no damage. The target does not need to eat or drink under the effect of this.
• Eldritch Beam: Greater, 5th, Blast Shape; Eldritch blast channeled into a 5ft. x 60ft. line, affecting all creatures in its path (Reflex for half).

Dark:

• Dark Discorporation: Dark, 8th; Become 8 squares of Diminutive shadow bats for 24 hours; Str = 1, Dex +6; Lose armor and natural armor bonuses to AC, +4 size and + Cha to AC; Diminutive size swarm and Fly 40ft. (Perfect); Swarm subtype traits; Swarm Attack for 4d6 to any creature in your space at end of turn as magic weapon of your alignment; Distraction on any living creature vulnerable to your swarm attack starting turn in your space makes Fort save or be nauseated for 1 round and spellcasting in your space requires Concentration; All possessions are nonfunctional and absorbed into your new form.
• Caster's Lament: Dark, 8th; Break Enchantment on touch, but can only attempt to affect any given effect once in a 24 hour period. Can also use this to counterspell 7th level or lower spells as if using Greater Dispel Magic.
• Steal Summoning: Dark, 6th; Cast as an immediate action to steal control of a summoned creature as soon as it is summoned with a successful Caster Level check (DC 11 + CL of summoner) for as long as you concentrate plus 1 round up to 1 round per level + 1

Reference for alter self and summon swarm:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/alterSelf.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/summonSwarm.htm

^^^ Those are lore-friendly choices for anyone who want more fireworks.

As for random changes to existing invocations that are not part of the lore, I'm against it.

Nothing will come out of this anyway. Last suggestion was made in 2016.

[Apis]

What about your own suggestion to add a summon cohort ability that would act like planar binding (lesser, normal, or greater, depending on the caster level). That is home brew, isn't it?

You seem rather adamant that home brew is bad, but just suggested it a few months ago. Right?

I like your longer list of selections as well. They all sound great. I would love to see them in game. I just dont understand why you are so adamantly lined up against home brew when you suggested something else home brew not long ago.