Monthly 100% RCR

[Calodan]

It wouldn't be so bad if the XP granted at higher level's was a bit better for higher level mobs/quests. Look at the typical RPG that is XP based for levels....the higher level mobs grant higher level XP.

I realize that this is on a curve in order to avoid lower levels going to higher level areas and reaping in massive amounts of XP from 1 or 2 kills, but there has to be a way for it to be made so that isn't possible. However, if a group has the skill why shouldn't the XP be rewarded?

Easy example: Typically XP in old school RPG's is granted at a fixed rate. You kill a goblin at level 1, you get 15 xp. You kill a goblin at level 20, you get 15 xp. You kill a dragon at level 1 (bare with me), it's 15k XP. You do the same thing at level 20, it's 15k xp. Killing a goblin at level 1 and getting 50 xp isn't so bad when you need 2k xp to your next level. Killing a high level gnoll at level 20 and getting 50 xp, but you need 20k to your next level makes no sense.

That being said, the higher level zones should be offering much higher xp rewards to represent the more difficult threats. Maybe I'm missing the formula, but maybe were looking at the wrong solution to the problem altogether. If XP rewards were different, leveling wouldn't be such a chore, and the 20 cap and XP for RCR wouldn't be so bad.

Quest XP overall if you do all of them is over 10k+......The quest XP needs nothing added to it.....Questing in itself is a another monstrosity that needs to be made so everyone can get that XP through play styles and not made that every person MUST quest to get that 10k+.

The higher level zones are pumping out 2k/hour of grind time as it is. The server has already stated they are fine with the current time it takes to get to 30 given all of the XP one can get through questing weekly, fishing, RP XP and grinding the zones that are higher spawn rates.

Put rather concisely the server is never going to shorten the time it takes to get to 30 by adding more XP to anything but instead we need to petition for other forms that make it more FUN for all.

[Reckeo]

What happens to me is I get a character to 20 (It doesn't take very long, I'll admit, a week or two of dedicated play, and a few decent parties), but post 20 it's such a drag that I usually grow bored and move on to other games or switch to one of my alts and play them. The RP is cool, but when its a matter of RP or grind, or loot/steamroll a lower level dungeon, it gets banal and I typically play a lower level alt (8-16), or play another game/move on. This also disrupts RP as other characters are RPing, but there is not always a place for my particular characters to RP, and sometimes I don't want to be the guy that's lingering around shoe-horning myself into other people's stories where I have no place or welcome.

This being said, most of the people I find are welcoming, this is not an issue. The issue is the limitations of soloability and XP gain at high levels, making me dependent on grind for hours on end where I gain little, as opposed to hopping on a lower level alt, and enjoying the actual experience of progression via level appropriate loot/xp gain. The curve to 20 is almost perfect. The curve past 20 is detrimentally snail-pace. 100% RCR doesn't fix this, but this is a bigger problem.

Also, I find the lack of +5 gear to be detrimental to non casters. We all know this server, possibly the NWN2 engine in general favors casters. There isn't a single actual Flametongue weapon that is true to the source material. An actual flametongue weapon does 1d8 +2 or whatever the enchanment is, but it is also supposed to do +1d6 or 1d8 fire dmg. This server offers a bonus of 1 dmg. There are no frost brands. There are no vorpal blades. In every pen and paper game, RPG etc I've played, this is what gives warrior/melee builds an advantage so they have the DPS to keep up with insta-death spells etc. We are limited in gear, and this makes builds be corralled into particular builds. I'm sorry, but I don't want to be forced into making a Dwarven Defender just to be able to handle epic content with the ease that the current Dwarf Warrior builds enjoy.

As it stands, success is currently only achievable by those who endure the painfully long grind only to have a sub-par build, or those who know the system inside and out and can manipulate the system for easier success. I don't want to have to take steadfast determination just to avoid insta-death from a stupid gnoll casting destruction, or avoid a stupid petrification against a DC of 22 when my Save itself is 25 and I roll a stupid 1. Every caster no matter the spell, unless you take specific feats, is granted at least a 5% chance of success with insta-death spells. Warriors/melee builds are granted no such grace, period.

And paladins get the nerf hammer hard unless EDM build. Even the new kits don't make up for that. I had some hope that maybe the new kit that offered favored enemy offered favored power attack, but alas, it does not, making Ranger still yet a superior class. Yet Barbarians get evasion, which I've never seen in a single RPG, pen and paper or otherwise to date.

[chad878262]

There is a handaxe +4 with 1d6 frost damage. I have seen greatswords with 1d6 fire damage and I have an alchemical silver longsword +3 with 1d4 fire damage...

The low magic of this server does favor casters, yes...However, if +5 weapons became epic there would be some major repercussions.

1. All epic items, including some that are considered as trade only would loose value in favor of the new epic. Thus trashing the RP and mechanical benefit that was worked for by any given player that has such an item... Isn't one of the arguments in this thread not to take away stuff that players have worked for? This is essentially the same thing.

2. It would devalue grouping up with casters, just as the introduction of non-rare +4 stat items does. If you can be a non-caster and get +5 weapon, armor, natural from items what is the caster providing to the group? You can steamroll content faster without waiting for the caster to rest/buff/etc.

3. It negatively impacts the balance of PvE content. If everyone is running around with +4-5 AC (armor, dodge, deflection, natural, shield), +1 AB/Damage then mobs that used to be challenging may only hit on a 20, for example.

A change like this would be very bad for an established server simply due to the amount of rework required across the board.

[Invoker]

And paladins get the nerf hammer hard unless EDM build. Even the new kits don't make up for that. I had some hope that maybe the new kit that offered favored enemy offered favored power attack, but alas, it does not, making Ranger still yet a superior class. Yet Barbarians get evasion, which I've never seen in a single RPG, pen and paper or otherwise to date.

This is a little off topic...but I have a lvl 30 pure Paladin without EDM. My first character on the server, never RCRed. He can solo most of the server (admittedly, after some 7 years he has good gear, but nothing better than what you find in the epic shops), even though he's an RP build (0 Tumble, for instance).

You can play any of the class you mentioned above, and comfortably face epic content. If you open a thread in Tips&Tricks, plenty of people will help you build them correctly, so that you can have fun playing them.

Good luck & happy RPing.

[Reckeo]

There is a handaxe +4 with 1d6 frost damage. I have seen greatswords with 1d6 fire damage and I have an alchemical silver longsword +3 with 1d4 fire damage...

The low magic of this server does favor casters, yes...However, if +5 weapons became epic there would be some major repercussions.

1. All epic items, including some that are considered as trade only would loose value in favor of the new epic. Thus trashing the RP and mechanical benefit that was worked for by any given player that has such an item... Isn't one of the arguments in this thread not to take away stuff that players have worked for? This is essentially the same thing.

2. It would devalue grouping up with casters, just as the introduction of non-rare +4 stat items does. If you can be a non-caster and get +5 weapon, armor, natural from items what is the caster providing to the group? You can steamroll content faster without waiting for the caster to rest/buff/etc.

3. It negatively impacts the balance of PvE content. If everyone is running around with +4-5 AC (armor, dodge, deflection, natural, shield), +1 AB/Damage then mobs that used to be challenging may only hit on a 20, for example.

A change like this would be very bad for an established server simply due to the amount of rework required across the board.

These are valid points and I thank you for the thoughtful response.

I believe number 1 is open to difference of opinion, but that's fine.

I am not so certain that number 2 is so true, as casters would be better able to focus on utilizing magic for offensive spells and qualities as opposed to having to focus on buffs. Casters provide many useful spells and advantages through heals and AoE/instant death spells and summons. Also, the buffs are still extremely useful for buffing summons, self, and players who might not have that awesome gear. I'm not saying everyone needs to be running around with full +5 gear, but casters with magical vestments and weapons already get +5, so this means that +5 gear kind of exists, but only through spells and only available to casters.

I also understand that the 'challenging mobs' would require some rework, and it would be too much to revamp the entire system too. But as it stands, I still think it's completely imbalanced and is detrimental to the overall community as a whole as it stands right now too, although my language is strong, I don't wish to make it seem grossly exaggerated or dramatic, that's not my intent, just to bring attention to it is all.

Still not understanding why Barbs got evasion.

[chad878262]

Just to be clear, if I was around in the beginning I would have argued for +5 being the top end instead of +4... So I agree with you somewhat, I just think it would be a bad idea now, after all this time. *shrug* who can know what would happen unless it was done!

Also, Invokers advice is really sound. I have some 'power-build' type PCs and some relatively weak PCs and all of them can solo CR appropriate content and at least some end game bosses at level 30. Expecting to solo the white, or even the balor with some PCs isn't realistic, but Paladin builds can certainly take on any other boss with the right equipment and buffs, as an example.

[Deathgrowl]

I am not so certain that number 2 is so true, as casters would be better able to focus on utilizing magic for offensive spells and qualities as opposed to having to focus on buffs. Casters provide many useful spells and advantages through heals and AoE/instant death spells and summons. Also, the buffs are still extremely useful for buffing summons, self, and players who might not have that awesome gear. I'm not saying everyone needs to be running around with full +5 gear, but casters with magical vestments and weapons already get +5, so this means that +5 gear kind of exists, but only through spells and only available to casters.

Not entirely accurate, as most of these buffs are level 2 and 3 (extended to level 4 at most), there aren't that many spells useful for party-play to replace them with. It's nice to be able to cast another Flame Arrow or Ice Darts, maybe, but you'll never compete with single-target damage per round with any of the meleers in your group, and so the caster doesn't really bring anything useful to the group from those spells.

As to your earlier point about having a level 21 character that you think nobody remembers: Have you asked yourself why people might not remember that character? It is almost certainly not because of its level. I am very confident that there has been a lot of level 30s that no one now remembers - not even the oldest veterans. I am also quite certain that there are characters that never reached even level 15 that people remember very well indeed. So in the end, I don't see how your argument works here. Level doesn't matter for legacy.

[NegInfinity]

I had a different experience, not in that it wasn't difficult, but that it was also a lot of fun. My first character wasn't great, but he was serviceable.

My first character started as dual-weapon dex fighter. Before deadly defense was a thing. This works in OC because you can stack up elemental damage on weapons via enchanting. Doesn't really work this way on bgtscc, due to SIGNIFICANTLY higher equipment requirements.

[Reckeo]

I thank you guys for the thoughtful responses. I didn't mean to come across as over dramatic or over exaggerating things. The server is still highly enjoyable, I just think some things are overlooked in favor of others which to me, as a player, doesn't make sense.

In response to deathgrowl, there a multitude of reasons why my character isn't remembered. Not that it matters, as like I said, it was an old character concept that was made from an earlier time in my life. He was a highly experimental build based upon what I knew from other RP games, or systems with similar engines, but the personality of the character is annoying to anyone with a maturity level past the age of adulthood. He was a sword wielding monster slayer that jumped into fights recklessly and didn't fear death. He's died many times, and this type of RP isn't exactly one that works well with the RP atmosphere of the server, not that this a bad thing, hence my desire to retire him, either at 100% xp, or even with the hit. Doesn't matter to me. I'm also not so ego-centric to believe that I create characters that are 'unforgettable'. I'm not here to create some dramatic unforgettable telling of some characters tale. It's a cold hard world, people come and people go, some are remembered, but most are forgotten. Doesn't phase me.

That being said this server does a lot of things RIGHT.

[Quiltezt]

I've been leveling both as a human frenzied berserker and as a caster to mid epics. I liked frenzied berserker class 'cos it shopped things down extremly fast, i was amazed by the power of the supreme cleave. It felt good.I like my druid 'cos its a lot safer to grind with, however the damage output is really low. At lv 20 my berserker often pulled of 1k+ damage output within a blink of an eye due to the crits and supreme cleave. I'm happy if my druid makes 150 dmg in a round. I would get to lv 30 the same way with both of them and like everyone else. I had that..."Ohboy my character is op af" feeling with both my frenzied berserker and my druid. Both has its weakness and its strenght. I could easily solo with my druid...but then again..why would I? If i want to play alone, there are other and better platforms for that. I couldn't be bothered grinding without something high bab with me like a paladin or a fighter until lv27...I hit lv 27 and huh...I still haven't managed to see how is dragonshape in solo 'cos I always teamed up with somoene before even settling off to adventure. I'm motivated to grind as much as it takes 'cos I'm looking forwards for my character's new abilities that bring some colour to my character development. I ahve not been around for long, but so far the development team brought something new to the server quite often and they deserve a clap for their hard work.This server is awesome.

I have RCRed my character 4 times for mainly RP purposes, 3 times from early epics. I have no regrets, I don't consider this as a waste of time 'cos I'm enjoying RPing Quil. I've tried and I'm trying to approach different player groups all the time. Some of them were welcoming, some of them weren't. I have my up and downs, my character is still not quite a member of any guilds and he has invested a very high amount of time supporting other characters/guilds which had no benefit whatsoever. I often feel dissapointed with the outcome of Quil's efforts? Yes. Do i consider it a waste of time? No. I've created a character that I enjoy RPing and will carry on doing so.

I should be IG doing productive things (or reading a book to improve my broken english) so I'm going to just stop here and don't write a novel about that certain elf priestess of Eldath around BG farmlands who has been created like a week ago and not even lv 10, but most active players are going to remember her due to the amazing RP she provided even if she decided to quit this game like right now.

Frankly, reading theese posts..I honestly don't think its the current system's fault if you get bored of the game.

[Valefort]

It wouldn't be so bad if the XP granted at higher level's was a bit better for higher level mobs/quests. Look at the typical RPG that is XP based for levels....the higher level mobs grant higher level XP.

I realize that this is on a curve in order to avoid lower levels going to higher level areas and reaping in massive amounts of XP from 1 or 2 kills, but there has to be a way for it to be made so that isn't possible. However, if a group has the skill why shouldn't the XP be rewarded?

Easy example: Typically XP in old school RPG's is granted at a fixed rate. You kill a goblin at level 1, you get 15 xp. You kill a goblin at level 20, you get 15 xp. You kill a dragon at level 1 (bare with me), it's 15k XP. You do the same thing at level 20, it's 15k xp. Killing a goblin at level 1 and getting 50 xp isn't so bad when you need 2k xp to your next level. Killing a high level gnoll at level 20 and getting 50 xp, but you need 20k to your next level makes no sense.

That being said, the higher level zones should be offering much higher xp rewards to represent the more difficult threats. Maybe I'm missing the formula, but maybe were looking at the wrong solution to the problem altogether. If XP rewards were different, leveling wouldn't be such a chore, and the 20 cap and XP for RCR wouldn't be so bad.

You got it wrong, it's set up in order to slow down the progression in epic levels. The idea is that it should take a bunch of months to get there.

[Reckeo]

Frankly, reading theese posts..I honestly don't think its the current system's fault if you get bored of the game.

I gotta disagree with you though. I know you enjoy Rping Quil, and I really enjoy RPing with Quil (as you know). But the grind after 20 is just tedious and a major factor why I move on to other games. This is definitely attributable to the slow xp gain post 20. You've played a frenzied berserker and yes, their power attack is very powerful, but you also play a druid, arguably one of the most powerful classes in the game due to the amount of innate spells and other abilities that druids are granted.

Alot of things have been changed and altered on the server for the sake of 'balancing', but the reality is that it doesn't create a balance, as is demonstrated by the people who curb the difficulty of the game with very, specific builds. RnG can be very unforgiving (You've also seen me die twice as a result of rolling 1's to destruction spell, and petrified by a beholder for also rolling a 1), the only way to mitigate this is death ward spell (a spell I didn't choose because I chose a broken one not knowing it was broken), or steadfast determination or epic resilience. In order to gain those feats, I either need to grind to level 28 or get the spell, meanwhile...keep facing those 1's during the grind. If I was offered a 100% RcR I could fix the problem immediately, but everyone is up in arms because "OMG NO THAT WOULD BREAK EVERYTHING WE'VE WORKED TO BUILD FOR THE PAST 50 YEARS ON THIS SERVER AND RUIN RP AND OMG THE SERVER WILL BURN TO THE GROUND AND DONT YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT THIS MEANS?!?!?!?".

K. Cya.

Two options, struggle through the grind to gain the feats so the RnG doesn't insta-murderize me for not having the only feats or spell that contradicts the 1; OR constantly have a caster friend to cast that spell on me and hope it doesn't dispell; OR RcR and regrind back to my current level with the XP hit, and lose....two weeks of game time because of this. None of these options are attractive or fun. Don't even get me started on my fighter/tempest who apparently is being punished because I didnt roll him as a power dwarf with epic resilience like the dev's and programmers suggest.

Wait, that's three options. Still.

[Reckeo]

It wouldn't be so bad if the XP granted at higher level's was a bit better for higher level mobs/quests. Look at the typical RPG that is XP based for levels....the higher level mobs grant higher level XP.

I realize that this is on a curve in order to avoid lower levels going to higher level areas and reaping in massive amounts of XP from 1 or 2 kills, but there has to be a way for it to be made so that isn't possible. However, if a group has the skill why shouldn't the XP be rewarded?

Easy example: Typically XP in old school RPG's is granted at a fixed rate. You kill a goblin at level 1, you get 15 xp. You kill a goblin at level 20, you get 15 xp. You kill a dragon at level 1 (bare with me), it's 15k XP. You do the same thing at level 20, it's 15k xp. Killing a goblin at level 1 and getting 50 xp isn't so bad when you need 2k xp to your next level. Killing a high level gnoll at level 20 and getting 50 xp, but you need 20k to your next level makes no sense.

That being said, the higher level zones should be offering much higher xp rewards to represent the more difficult threats. Maybe I'm missing the formula, but maybe were looking at the wrong solution to the problem altogether. If XP rewards were different, leveling wouldn't be such a chore, and the 20 cap and XP for RCR wouldn't be so bad.

You got it wrong, it's set up in order to slow down the progression in epic levels. The idea is that it should take a bunch of months to get there.

Months IRL? You mean months of grinding the same mobs over and over, and campire RP?

[Valefort]

I mean it's made to take several RL months for a normal player to level from 20 to 30, it's totally intentional. Also If you grind the same monsters over and over it's on your shoulders, no one is forcing you to and there's a good deal of variety now with the dynamic scaling.

RnG can be very unforgiving (You've also seen me die twice as a result of rolling 1's to destruction spell, and petrified by a beholder for also rolling a 1), the only way to mitigate this is death ward spell (a spell I didn't choose because I chose a broken one not knowing it was broken), or steadfast determination or epic resilience. In order to gain those feats, I either need to grind to level 28 or get the spell, meanwhile...keep facing those 1's during the grind. If I was offered a 100% RcR I could fix the problem immediately, but everyone is up in arms because "OMG NO THAT WOULD BREAK EVERYTHING WE'VE WORKED TO BUILD FOR THE PAST 50 YEARS ON THIS SERVER AND RUIN RP AND OMG THE SERVER WILL BURN TO THE GROUND AND DONT YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT THIS MEANS?!?!?!?".

K. Cya.

So, if we don't give 100% RCR then sometimes, somewhere, a PC will roll a 1 and die while he could have lived. It's truely dramatic

I hope you weren't serious !

[Reckeo]

I mean it's made to take several RL months for a normal player to level from 20 to 30, it's totally intentional. Also If you grind the same monsters over and over it's on your shoulders, no one is forcing you to and there's a good deal of variety now with the dynamic scaling.

RnG can be very unforgiving (You've also seen me die twice as a result of rolling 1's to destruction spell, and petrified by a beholder for also rolling a 1), the only way to mitigate this is death ward spell (a spell I didn't choose because I chose a broken one not knowing it was broken), or steadfast determination or epic resilience. In order to gain those feats, I either need to grind to level 28 or get the spell, meanwhile...keep facing those 1's during the grind. If I was offered a 100% RcR I could fix the problem immediately, but everyone is up in arms because "OMG NO THAT WOULD BREAK EVERYTHING WE'VE WORKED TO BUILD FOR THE PAST 50 YEARS ON THIS SERVER AND RUIN RP AND OMG THE SERVER WILL BURN TO THE GROUND AND DONT YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT THIS MEANS?!?!?!?".

K. Cya.

So, if we don't give 100% RCR then sometimes, somewhere, a PC will roll a 1 and die while he could have lived. It's truely dramatic

I hope you weren't serious !

I was in fact only joking yes, this isn't to be taken as a dramatic presentation despite my language being strong. No worries.

Can't a man complain how hard he has it in this cruel world?!?!? Still, I don't see how the dramatic responses from other players as to why this should not be allowed is not just as over dramatic and falsely founded as the premise of the joke I made.

And why is nobody addressing my big question...why do barbarians get evasion?