Svirfneblin - Ranger, Cleric, or HIPSter?

[Khazrak]

+2 DEX, +2 WIS, -2 STR, -4 CHA. No +dodge AC anymore, according to the server rules. Small size, spell resistance...

This seems like it could make a decent Ranger, possibly bow-based. But it also could make a very serviceable assassin type - or a sneaky priest. If I'm going to be playing a svirfneblin, I'd like to know what some good options are.

I'm rebuilding/renaming a svirfneblin character I had recovered, so I shouldn't have to grind through the early levels (should be at least level 10 after RCR). TWF melee ranger has the issue of wanting to be STR-based, so it feels like if I want to TWF I should go rogue/something. I've chewed on something like Rogue 13, Fighter 4, Assassin 8, Bodyguard 5.

A bow ranger could be fun and make use of the gnome's solid DEX/WIS. I'd like to work Cavestalker in, but I'm not sure how terrible it'll be to lose Caster Level due to taking more than 4 Cavestalker levels. Those are some real nice static bonuses for an Underdark dweller, however...

Worshiping old Smoothhands, I could make a deep gnome cleric with the Trickery and Luck domains, but I'd really like to manage a sort of Rogue/Cleric if I went that route, or perhaps a skill-heavy Cleric (Harper Agent/Priest? Is this the one time it makes sense to do both?). I'm at a bit of a loss here - without Rogue 10, being a sneaker of any kind seems a bad investment, but Cleric doesn't want to lose more than 4 caster levels (the amount covered by Practiced Spellcaster).

One last silly idea that comes to mind is a Paladin archer. Cavalier, taking 4 levels of Harper Scout: 7 favored enemies by level 30. That's +7 attack/damage versus tons of enemies. Cast paladin buffs for +8 Strength, pew-pew with a sling or bow. But then you're a paladin in the Underdark, even if you're living around a svirfneblin city like Rockrun. That seems like a patently bad idea.

Any thoughts?

[Sun Wukong]

Worshiping old Smoothhands, I could make a deep gnome cleric with the Trickery and Luck domains, but I'd really like to manage a sort of Rogue/Cleric if I went that route, or perhaps a skill-heavy Cleric (Harper Agent/Priest? Is this the one time it makes sense to do both?). I'm at a bit of a loss here - without Rogue 10, being a sneaker of any kind seems a bad investment, but Cleric doesn't want to lose more than 4 caster levels (the amount covered by Practiced Spellcaster).

Rogue 3/Cleric 7/Darkfire Disciple 10/Hierophant 10 - can get the caster level of 32, and 5d6 sneak attack dice. (If you went for Hierophant Spell Power III)

Phantom 3/Cleric 7/Darkfire Disciple 10/Hierophant 10 - can get the caster level of 32, and 5d6 sneak attack dice. (If you went for Hierophant Spell Power III)

The rogue build gets Evasion, UMD, and Trapfinding if you want to disable traps. The phantom build gets wisdom to AC and three uses of instant short duration invisibility. Both builds can go high on wisdom, grab Zen Archery and deal pretty good damage with ranged weapons. For example:

1d4 (Sling)
+ 4 (Enchantment Bonus on sling)
+ 1 (Piercing on sling)
+ 1 (Sonic on sling)
+ 1 (Electric on sling)
+ 1d4 (Sacred Fire from Darkfire Disciple)
+ 5 (Base 14 strength with Divine Power)
+ 3 (Divine Favor)
+ 3 (Righteous Might)
+ 1d6 (Aura against alignment)
+ 1d6 (Elemental bullets)
= 30~ (Avarage hit) (+5d6 Sneak Attack for 17.5~ avarage)

AB:
30 (BAB)
+ 4 (Weapon EB)
+ 12 (Wisdom)
+ 3 (Divine Favor)
+ 1 (Bless)
= 50

Both builds could also make use of Elemental Swarm to summon some Earth Elementals, and that Summon Monster IX for even bigger Earth Elemental. Thus, you have things to help you flank in order to get those sneak attacks. Not to mention that whoever you party with will do a similar favor to you.

Spell Focus Necromancy gives you high DC Harm Spells.
Spell Focus Evocation pretty much covers majority of offensive cleric spells.
Spell Focus Conjuration boosts both your summons and the Storm of Vengeance spell.

You can pick whichever of the three schools to focus on and you will be more than good to go.

Here is a suggested selection of feats:

1: Spellcasting Prodigy
3: Able Learner
6: Iron Will
9: Extend Spell
12: Spell Focus
15: Greater Spell Focus
18: Combat Expertise
21: Epic Spell Focus
23: Great Wisdom I
25: Great Wisdom II
27: Great Wisdom III
29: Great Wisdom IV

You could drop Able Learner and get Improved Combat Expertise, but that does make leveling a slightly more difficult. With Able Learner you could just go for Rogue or Phantom 3/Cleric 7/Darkfire Disciple 7/Hierophant 3 pre-epic.

The rogue build avoids multiclassing experience penalty as a Deep Gnome, so it might be the better option of the two. You could just wear full-plate with a heavy shield for AC and I have a human that does just that. But if you are willing to endure the multiclassing experience penalty, then the Phantom's wisdom to AC does offer a very interesting alternative to a low strength gnome.

[Hendrak]

Cavestalker gives full CL progression for Druid/Rangers.

If you need more than +4 CL from Practiced Spellcaster as Cleric you can insert Hierophant and pick Spellpower up to +3 (for a total +7 to CL). That allows to insert Assassin into a Cleric build.

Also Darkflame Zealot gives a lot of Cleric/Assassin features.

[Sun Wukong]

As for the ranger, Cavestalker does offer Full caster progression for rangers and druids, along with animal companion progression, so a wisdom based Zen Archery ranger is something that can work as well. I have one of these as well. (Without cavestalker though.)

A wisdom based ranger just needs Zen Archery and Natural Bond feats pre-epic.

[Sun Wukong]

One last silly idea that comes to mind is a Paladin archer. Cavalier, taking 4 levels of Harper Scout: 7 favored enemies by level 30. That's +7 attack/damage versus tons of enemies. Cast paladin buffs for +8 Strength, pew-pew with a sling or bow. But then you're a paladin in the Underdark, even if you're living around a svirfneblin city like Rockrun. That seems like a patently bad idea.

On the surface I would say go for it. But yeah, Paladin in the Underdark, might not be the easiest character to role-play properly. Then there is the membership of the Harpers to consider... Maybe some Harper adventurer got into Underdark? But still, It is all bit of a far-fetched concept.

[Khazrak]

The ranger route with high WIS sounds very tempting to me, and straightforward as well. Here's my question: can Favored Enemy bonuses stack past +5? (If I have 6 favored enemies, +6 to damage vs. each?)

Also, how deep into Cavestalker would you go? Just 3 so I can use Ranger HIPS and such underground? 6 levels for Hide of Stone 2?

I am considering the merits of Ranger 23 / Cavestalker 3 / Harper Scout 4 on my svirfneblin, as weird as this may sound. This nets the same +7 favored enemy bonus I'd get if I went full 30 ranger, but DOES cost two feats as a tax for Harper Scout. Full ranger spellcasting, however, and the ability to do my Ranger stuff underground. Thoughts?

The Harper membership might not be 'membership' so much as 'a dwarf harper got in touch with the svirfs of Rockrun and found a possible agent among them.'

[Khazrak]

Also: should make it clear that I'm also considering just Ranger 23 / Cavestalker 7, or Ranger 20 / Cavestalker 10. But... I love Favored Enemies. A lot.

[Hendrak]

What about Ranger26/Cavestalker4 much more feats and still 6 FE.

[Khazrak]

What about Ranger26/Cavestalker4 much more feats and still 6 FE.

Liking it!

[Sun Wukong]

I think you found your winner.

[Sun Wukong]

I was thinking of crossbow sniper ranger 21 cavestalker 9, for myself.

I assume dexterity based, instead of wisdom. The slight concealment should be nice... But were you thinking having it Ranger or Cavestalker heavy pre-epic?

[Sun Wukong]

Are Cavestalker bonus feats regular feats?

[Hendrak]

You can pick all feats on cavestalker bonus levels and even ranger specific feats like Imp.FE or FE PA and even another FE.

[Khazrak]

The reduced number of attacks from crossbow for some minor +damage turns me off. Don't slings and bows generally overpower the crossbow? Especially when we deal with flat +damage bonuses like Favored Enemy and Bane of Enemies?

Also: are there any special requirements for Epic Animal Companion? And what does it do? I haven't actually played a ranger or druid on an epic server in a long time.

Does the Cavestalker DEX bonus stack with enhancement bonuses to DEX?

[Khazrak]

One more question: Would 4 levels of Fighter for Weapon Spec + Ranged Weapon Mastery be worth considering? It weakens the animal companion, but means you get +2 attack and +4 damage vs. all enemies.

Assuming Epic Animal Companion works the way I think it does, this means an AC of level 25, and CL 29 with Practiced Spellcaster. Damage becomes, versus a Favored Enemy, assuming a shortbow (for 19-20 x3 crit)... 1d6+enchantments+6(FE)+4(Weapon Spec)+3(STR)+2d6(Bane of Enemies). Meaning: 3d6+13, or 16-31 per shot, 32-62 per manyshot. Not huge before enchantments. If my enemies has Improved Favored Enemy on its type, then the damage goes up to 19-34 per shot, or 38-68 per shot. Again, this assumes no enchantments.

The main downside is oh God more XP penalties why? I could take the Fighter levels at 17-21, but it would hurt one way or another.

Without Weapon Spec / Ranged Weapon Mastery, my damage vs. non-favored enemies is pretty darned pathetic is my chief concern.

EDIT: Here's a pure Ranger/Cavestalker setup... Click!

And here is a Ranger/Fighter/Cavestalker setup... Click!

The ranger build is more elegant, but the ranger/fighter packs a bigger wallop. Has less favored enemies, however.