Epic Animal Companion and Telthor

[Tiberis79]

My telthor companion does not seem to be leveling with me, nor does it seem to have garnered the three levels it should have gotten with the Epic companion feat. Hitpoints and stats are all the same even after a level and the three level boost it should have gotten from the feat. Essentailly this last level it should have gained 4 lvls, and it does not appear to have even gone up one. My telthor should be a lvl 20 at this point, and gets owned by enemies server levels down from it unless and ward the be-jabbers out of it. I honestly don't think it has leveled at all since I took the Telthor companion feat, which means it is down 6 or 7 levels from where it should be.

[mrm3ntalist]

The animal companion does not progress on every level you take. Its more like every 3 of your character levels, the animal companion upgrades. Epic Animal companion basically gives you 1 animal companion upgrade which usually is 2 levels. The table on the following link might help you understand. I use animal companions a lot and they do work as they should

http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Animal_companion
I also highlighted the feat desc. 3 of your character levels which can go even beyond your HD for 1 higher level bracket companion

Type of feat
Class, Epic
Prerequisite
Character 21, Wisdom 25, Animal Companion
Required for
Dragon Companion
Specifics
Your animal companion's abilities are determined as if you had three additional levels.

Use
Selected
Note that this feat works beyond a level 30 cap, thus giving a level 30 character an animal companion of 1 higher level bracket, which equates to a +2 animal level. This gives: +2 HD, +2 natural AC, +1 Str and +1 Dex (which may give additional AC, if Dex finishes on an Even number).

[Tiberis79]

Sorry for taking a while to get back to you. I still don't think it is working right.

I went to considerable time and effort with this build, pestering poor Valefort, who was kind enough to point me at JEGS. I tested several fine tuned rebuilds before RCRing Lannia, (Because I HATE grinding levels with an absolute passion. I worked hard to get her to level 30 and it was a painful decision to me to RCR her at all) and would not have taken Telthor companion and epic companion if I had not already extensively tested the capability. When I got to the level I expected to make it worth it to even summon him, imagine my surprise that he just wasn't up to snuff. So while I was not completely clear on how he should level, he has clearly not leveled as he should have. Here is "Cider", as I call him in JEGS at my rebuild's current level;



Here is Cider in game.



He is clearly missing at least one level. It actually looks like he is missing 2.

[Nemni]

I've tested this in game.

Level 18 shaman without natural bond -> level 10 companion. According to the wiki a level 15 druid should have a level 11 companion.

Level 21 shaman with natural bond -> level 13 companion. A druid would have had 15.

Level 23 shaman now with epic animal companion and natural bond -> level 15 companion.

Level 30 shaman -> level 19 companion. Stats: 41 AC, 25 AB, 19 BaB, 1-6+7 dmg, improved evasion and knockdown but no multiattack. The AC is good but for everything else you are better off with a summon, which does not cost 3 feats.

So the companion does level with you, that's not a bug. But are the levels a bug? Depends on how it was designed. But it's certainly not strong. And Nature's Avatar still does not work on telthor and that's surely a bug.

In my opinion the shaman should just be given access to the same pets as the druid, for the same cost. Or (with more work required) a different set of spiritual themed animals.

[Valefort]

https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title ... _Companion

There's a -3 levels offset. I'm not saying it's justified or not, just that the info is there.

[chad878262]

Yeah Spirit Shaman isn't exactly OP and Telthor Companion isn't all that better than standard companion. I'll take this QC side for discussion, I'm thinking it could be -1 or -2 instead of -3 HD for Telthor.

[Sun Wukong]

It would be far better if Nature's Avatar worked on it.

[Valefort]

Nature's avatar should work on it next update.

[Sun Wukong]

Neat, but I think you should check that it doesn't apply on the druid itself, if they use the Magical Beast Wild Shape that grants Magical Beasts forms.

[Tiberis79]

The pictures above are of Lannia in the latest version JEGS for bgtscc and in game. Same level, same feats, somehow the telthor is missing two levels. At this point she has Epic companion which basically undoes the -3 lvls stipulation, so his level should be determined by my shaman levels directly.

If we are thinking of ways to tweak the Shaman, I am more than happy to join that discussion too. Perhaps in another thread to not confuse the issue? I have played a shaman for almost two years, and contrary to some of the standards arguments I do not want to see it become a "Spontaneous Casting Druid" and be the new standard of OP nature caster. I have a lot of ideas that would go toward making Shaman's more their own class instead of "a really sucky druid with some extras", without making a monster class. I'm also fine with the fact that you basically have to choose between being a DC caster or a buffer since you split your casting across two stats.

It makes you choose the kind of Shaman you will be, which will create a variety. Since Shaman's are supposed to come from a variety of tribal traditions, they SHOULD be a varied class that makes the player think about the role that a Shaman of their tribe would play.

Telthor is not terribly better than a standard wolf companion. It barely qualifies for being an epic companion. They start out at being determined by your lvl - 3. Which I do find a bit ridiculous as lack luster as they are at full strength and costing a feat. I could see an adjustment to either getting rid of the -3 penalty, or just granting the telthor companion as a shaman's only choice of companions. Maybe as part of a shaman level, something higher like 15-20. Letting shamans have the same companions as druids is just one more step from Shaman to "Druid-lite", but having a spirit companion is more in keeping with the vein. Even the highest powered Telthor with epic companion, natural bond, and full of shammy buffs, is no where near the Druid's epic companions, and I am just fine with that.

[Tiberis79]

I have nothing but love for the idea of Telthor's getting Nature's Avatar. Thank you, dev gods.

*bows and kisses dev feats, makes them cookies, hot chocolate and home made extra vanilla-y marshmallows.*

OH, DEV GODS! I am not worthy.

Though I do understand that it was not originally granted because the spell says "animal companion" and the Telthor is a monstrous companion even if it is a "magical beast". I can see arguments for either side. Personaly, since a telthor is supposed to be a "spirit of the land" it makes sense to me for them to be buff-able with nature's avatar. "Nature's avatar" and "Spirit of the Land"? It just sounds like it goes together.

*offers her first born to Valefort, the supreme dev god who gave us the BG market*

[Valefort]

Neat, but I think you should check that it doesn't apply on the druid itself, if they use the Magical Beast Wild Shape that grants Magical Beasts forms.

It's ok, I check if that's an animal companion.

I'll take the cookies

[Sun Wukong]

You know the rules, no cookies before server update!

But yeah, Nature's Avatar working on Telthor is a great fix.

[Tiberis79]

*Gives all the cookies to Valefort* I make really good cookies. It's a prerequisite of life on the dark side; We have the best cookies.