summon alignments

[illithid]

Can we assume that you know the alignment of creatures summoned through summon I-IX? or or have a best guess? Demons and celestials are less problematic, but things like shadow elementals?

[Tsidkenu]

Shadow Elementals consist of Shadowstuff from the Plane of Shadows. They're NE.

If you're not sure you can always go to some forgotten cave, load up your spellbook with summons and take a gander for yourself

[illithid]

I was meaning more in the sense of, do we "actually" know as a caster, as opposed to seeing it from a player reading the GUI character bio.

Usually neutral evil

There would be an assumption on casting of what you were likely to be dealing with, but do you actually know when your summon appears

[Wolfrayne]

That would depend on your characters experience with such beings. There is no "detect evil" but for the most part normal people would assume all "monster" summons are evil or dangerous. Celestials not so much but again. Individual assumptions.

And yes. Shadows are evil... life devouring evil.

The only exception would be Shadow Dancer Summon which is the same alignment as the caster however most people would assume evil.

[NegInfinity]

Can we assume that you know the alignment of creatures summoned through summon I-IX? or or have a best guess? Demons and celestials are less problematic, but things like shadow elementals?

Alignments of summons are displayed via icons, although the icons are rather cryptic.

Becuase summons are tied to your alignment, I'd say your character has at least a reasonable idea of what they are. I'd go with something like "celestials has never responded to my call".

[illithid]

Alignments of summons are displayed via icons, although the icons are rather cryptic.

You misunderstand, I'm aware as a player, both because of the icons and because of my knowledge, however there are a few summons that list as "usually" on the forgotten realms wiki, its usually the neutrals but not always, and this leaves a little grey area.

Can I assume that, as a caster, I will always summon the "usual" alignment, or can I assume as caster that "chances are they are x" but I might get a "y"? or something different? and do I even know what alignment they are? (I accept that they are always the same on BG, its more a RP perspective)

That would depend on your characters experience with such beings. There is no "detect evil" but for the most part normal people would assume all "monster" summons are evil or dangerous. Celestials not so much but again. Individual assumptions.

This is where I get a little stuck, can I see the summons character sheet? or do I best guess? just looking for rough guideline to adhere to.
Fire Elemental - usually neutral?

[NegInfinity]

You misunderstand, I'm aware as a player, both because of the icons and because of my knowledge, however there are a few summons that list as "usually" on the forgotten realms wiki, its usually the neutrals but not always, and this leaves a little grey area.

The way I see it:

Your caster knows that some creatures do not respond to the summoning call, meaning they despise or ignore the summoner.
A caster with Lore Planes would know what creatures usually are. Most of the lore planes checks (afaik), are usually low, like DC10.

So, by default the caster would probably expect "default creature" with no exepctedly lawful good shadow elementals.

In addition to that, stuff like planar binding summons is supposed to be something you've personally bargained with.

So... I'd say, yes caster either knows or expects certain alignment, but a DM could take over.

So, your mage doesn't KNOW alignment (because there are no detect alignment spells), but expects the default one.

[Cenerae]

When you use Summon Creature, you aren't actually summoning a 'real' being (as you do with the planar spells) but a copy of one. So I think it would be appropriate to say that the spell would conjure a typical version, which would mean that the alignment should be the standard one.

As to whether your character would know what the 'standard' alignment is? I think it would take an exceptionally foolish spellcaster to try and summon a being they know absolutely nothing about, but I suppose it could be done.

[Hoihe]

I'd wager for conjurers the whole planar geometry to be relatively well known. If anything, they should know that upper planes - angels, lower planes - fiends.

[NegInfinity]

When you use Summon Creature, you aren't actually summoning a 'real' being (as you do with the planar spells) but a copy of one. So I think it would be appropriate to say that the spell would conjure a typical version, which would mean that the alignment should be the standard one.

As to whether your character would know what the 'standard' alignment is? I think it would take an exceptionally foolish spellcaster to try and summon a being they know absolutely nothing about, but I suppose it could be done.

This is incorrect. There's "Conjuration(summoning)" and "Conjuration(calling)". When you use "summoning" (Summon Monster spells), then you get a copy.

When you use "calling" (planar binding, planar ally, gate), then the creature is really here and can die for real. Please note that majority of outsiders cannot be resurrected at all, and once they die, this is it. This applies to fey, elementals, demons (their essence return to abyss), etc. Devils are probably the only exception (they can only die on their native plane), but one could wonder whether calling spell actually bend this rule as well.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview ... ptions.htm

[Cenerae]

This is incorrect. There's "Conjuration(summoning)" and "Conjuration(calling)". When you use "summoning" (Summon Monster spells), then you get a copy.

When you use Summon Creature, you aren't actually summoning a 'real' being (as you do with the planar spells) but a copy of one.

??? If it's incorrect, why are you saying the same thing?

[NegInfinity]

This is incorrect. There's "Conjuration(summoning)" and "Conjuration(calling)". When you use "summoning" (Summon Monster spells), then you get a copy.

When you use Summon Creature, you aren't actually summoning a 'real' being (as you do with the planar spells) but a copy of one.

??? If it's incorrect, why are you saying the same thing?

The original statement was ambiguous and could be interpreted as "Summon Creature == Using any Conjuration spell" and not as "Summon Creature == Using any Summon Monster spell".

[MrPsion]

I once asked a Thayan PC why he didn't heal his summons and in response he asked me why I cared about the well being of a creature I'm forcing to fight things with mind control. And I haven't summoned anything since. Now I feel silly.

[Cenerae]

I once asked a Thayan PC why he didn't heal his summons and in response he asked me why I cared about the well being of a creature I'm forcing to fight things with mind control. And I haven't summoned anything since. Now I feel silly.

If I understand it correctly, the only summoning that forces a real being to fight for you is the Gate series of spells, wherein you can demand service without any sort of agreement (which would also be why the spell doesn't last very long, I imagine).

I suppose the summon creature series forces service as well, but since the being is a copy instead of the real thing, it's less of a moral dilemma.

Planar bindings require the summoner to work out some sort of deal with the being - they aren't obligated to lift a finger to help you. Obviously, game mechanics skips over that part, but if you're trying to RP it properly, then you should come up with some sort of contract that your character made to get the being to work for you willingly. And then probably try to avoid getting them killed.

[Tsidkenu]

The Eight Schools of Magic Vol II

Hidden: show

The Eight School of Magic
Volume II: Conjuration

By Priestess Aeili Azenci.
Scribed in the Year of the Dragon, 1352 DR.

The School of Conjuration: Introduction

When one thinks of a conjurer, often what comes to mind are the fantastic, and sometimes horrendous, summoning rituals which conjure great and powerful creatures from other dimensions to aid the conjurer in some or other task, be it good or ill. This is a rather unfortunate general perception, because though the school is well known for its summoning and calling spells, there is simply so much more available at the fingertips of a talented conjurer. Magic of the school of conjuration can be roughly divided into five distinct subcategories: summoning, calling, creation, healing and teleportation. I shall treat each in turn.

Summoning

One of the most ancient and core components of the conjurer's art, summoning is often perceived as the backbone of the school. Summoning can refer to the act of conjuring either a creature, an object or a type of energy to the place the caster determines.

Summoned creatures are conjured from an extra-dimensional plane of existence to the caster's chosen destination. Creatures so conjured are actually manifestations of the original, meaning if they are slain or dispelled the creature evaporates, returning to its point of origin and reforming itself. An identical creature cannot be resummoned during this reformation process, which usually takes about a day, although a creature of a different type or power can be.

Summoned objects and energy effects appear at the point designated the the relevant spell. Some are offensive conjurations, such as Flame Arrow, causing searing-hot projectiles to shoot forth from the caster's hand at the intended target. Others are rather famous and effective spells such as Grease, Stinking Cloud and Cloudkill, bringing oily or noxious vapours to a location of the caster's choosing. It is important with these latter types to prepare backup removal magics such as Gust of Wind, and be wary of using them in indoor spaces.

There are also recall-type conjurations, causing a specifically marked object to return to the caster's possession. Such effects, usually being instantaneous in nature, are not subject to dispelling magics.

Calling

Easily confused with summoning proper, calling is a distinct category of conjurative magic. It differs from summoning in that the called creature is pulled from its home plane in its entirety, meaning if it is slain the creature is actually dead: it will not reform at its point of origin. This obviously implies some risk to the called creature, thus all beings so called will attempt to negotiate a specific contract with the caller as to their specific terms of service.

It is of uttmost importance to specify the conditions of return in such contracts, for called creatures retain the ability to return once, at will, to their home plane. Called creatures may also request specific payment for the services, be it magical items, treasure, slaves or a counter-contract or service.

Called creatures appear instantaneously after the completion of the relevant spell at the location specified by the conjurer, and because they are the real creature in its entirety they cannot be dispelled. They can, however, be abjured and banished back to their home plane.

Creation

This particular subschool of conjurative magic differs significantly from the School of Transmutation in several key ways. While transmutation is wholly capable of transforming one kind of matter wholly into another, conjurative creation is able to create a duplicate amount of a substance, be it metal, wood, earth, crystal, depending on the power of the spell so used.

It is of crucial importance, however, to remember that spell components cannot be duplicated in such a manner. Duplication of rare metals require a sample of the same, and lesser creation spells are only temporary. However, some of the more fantastic effects of conjurative creations have changed the face of Toril itself, so it is not a subcategory to be regarded lightly by any means.

Healing

Some might wonder why healing magic occupies a subcategory of the School of Conjuration rather than being of the School of Necromancy and the answer is relatively straightforward. Conjurative healing effects work by bringing energies from the Positive Energy plane to the caster and then infusing them into the target/s. Thus, healing is technically a kind of energy summoning, although some aspects of it go much further.

There are many stories that about of powerful magics capable of bringing even the deceased back to life. Called angelic beings are known to possess such magic at their fingertips, in fact. Such magic requires incredibly expensive spell components, however, so unfortunately it rests beyond the power of everyday folk and all but the most successful of adventurers.

Teleportation

The final aspect of conjurative magic are teleportations. An incredibly useful ability to move from place to place in an instant, teleportation falls under the school's power simply by the manner in which it works. It effectively summons the caster and her allies from their current point of origin to the intended destination.

All conjurative teleportation utilises travel through the Astral Sea, and because of this there are certain abjurative countermeasures available to prevent it. Spells such as Dimensional Anchor, and the more powerful Dimensional Lock come to mind, in addition to various localised warding magics such as those that guard the tomes of Candlekeep.

It is also possible to fail to fully realise the intended destination and be thrown off course, from a few miles to many hundreds, or even accidentally portalling to an alternate plane entirely. Furthermore, if a teleportation attempt fails due to warding effects or inattention it is wholly possible to be shunted aside into a solid object, such as a ceiling or mountain, with potentially fatal results. Students are highly advised to perfect teleportation basics with the much simpler Dimensional Door before progressing to more strenuous versions.

Summary

The School of Conjuration is far more than just a means to summon extraplanar creatures to the caster's side. It is more than capable of creating energy and recalling objects, as well as performing impressive acts of almost-fiat creation, and it is often through the school of conjuration that one may transport themselves not just across the Prime, but into all the other known planes.

Caution needs to be shown in many conjurative related activities. Contracted creatures can exact demanding repayments on the unawares, clouds of noxious gases conjured in confined spaces can prove as potentially fatal as being shunted into a castle wall from a failed teleportation spell. How fortunate, to those who can afford it, that healing and resurrection magics also belong to this important and powerful school of magic.