Technically speaking, a limited form of "100%" RCR

[chad878262]

and already quite a number of neutral and good casters also use evil spell like Avasculate

Avasculate had been ruled as not being evil and until it is, there is no rp baggage to using it. As for spells which have been ruled as evil on this server i have seen plenty of threads where such characters have been "outed" for there use.

They can already change their equipment appearance and use the disguise tool to mask their name.

And there is a counter mechanic to disguise so that such can be handled in character.

The point is counter play vs ooc avoiding consequence for actions.

[Sun Wukong]

No. Basically, I see your proposed scheme as either an exploit or a borderline exploit. I also don't recall a situation where I needed to have an EXACT same stats, looks and skillpoint allocation on the name char.

Perhaps someone just likes a particular build. In fact, I do not think I have enough fingers to count the number of different characters of mine that made use of Zen Archery, Acidic Splatter, and Storm of Venegance.

And between different players of the server, I do not think there is all that much variance between the many Fighter 14/Rogue 3/Frenzied Berserker 6/Weapon Master 7 builds this server has had, and will have in the future.

There's a very low number of high quality heads for characters. Basically in case of tieflings there are pretty much two faces I like, and that's it. I think Elemental Genasi have the worst of it (because in addition to low number of faces, there's a very low number of hair models)

But. that's what skin color and haircut is for. Make your tiefling red today!

I made a bearded half-elf, thus far, I have encountered three different half-elves with the same bearded head model and the same hair color. It just looks good, so I cannot really complain about it. Oh, and one time I actually managed to form a party of seven ginger haired individuals.

Equipment colour and equipment parts play a much larger role for me to identify different characters. I mean, I used to use pre-buffed Scale Mails in the past just to be able to tell my own character apart from everyone else.

[Sun Wukong]

Avasculate had been ruled as not being evil and until it is, there is no rp baggage to using it. As for spells which have been ruled as evil on this server i have seen plenty of threads where such characters have been "outed" for there use.

I believe I am free to role-play dislike towards the casters of the said spell, just as a poryphobic character of mine would be towards a flinger of a fireball. Just as a druid role-played as nature's true guardian might shun the 'shadow druids' that spam Storm of Vengeance.

And there is a counter mechanic to disguise so that such can be handled in character.

The point is counter play vs ooc avoiding consequence for actions.

But it is not really about being disguised, it is about coming up with a new character once the old character cannot go on.

For example you could create a bloodthirsty follower of Garagos/Talos and discover that the role-play this choice of deity brings is not exactly your cup of tea, in which case you just rename, adjust alignment, and swap deity to something more palatable.

Oh, and it is actually possible to adjust the colors of a pre-existing character. You just need to make use of the NWN1 save game editior and change the color values.




But yeah, I am just looking at this from the direction of... I have no reason to play this character anymore... so it is just time to 'Rebuild and Reroll' it... but I do like the build itself... and grinding is a chore... so why not have minor adjustments and the character becomes something new?



And I speak as someone who has had several old characters of mine adjusted for sake of disguises and to reband an old characters into something new. I have had deities changed, I have had alignments changed, I have had countless renames, and sometimes even the colour palette of my characters has been changed.



But yeah, I guess that's about that.

[Khazrak]

Oh, and it is actually possible to adjust the colors of a pre-existing character. You just need to make use of the NWN1 save game editior and change the color values.

Teach me this wizardry, master.

[NegInfinity]

Perhaps someone just likes a particular build. In fact, I do not think I have enough fingers to count the number of different characters of mine that made use of Zen Archery, Acidic Splatter, and Storm of Venegance.

I never had two identical builds. Something is always different. Skill point distribution, stats, etc.

[Sun Wukong]

Oh, its has been a while...

You need Leto 1.69, and you need to open a NWN2 save game folder and find the 'playerlist.ifo' file. Once you have opened it, click Menu > Tools > Advanced options.

Clikc on the '+' sign until you get to a list that contains the 'Tint_Head', and 'Tint_Hair' options - you got 1, 2 and 3 under them, and each of these have their respective values for red, green and blue under them. The acceptable values range from 0 to 255, and you can use some RGB color chart to figure out what values to input.

Tint_Head > Tintable > 1 = skin colour, 2 = eye colour, 3 = eyebrow colour.
Tint_Hair > Tintable > 1 = main hair colour, 2 = secondary hair colour, 3 = hair trinket colour.

I am not entirely sure about the hair, but the head option should be solid. You can hit the keyboard combination of 'ctrl + s' to save your changes. Then you can load your save and see if the changes stuck.

As for changing it on the server itself, you need to contact a server admin, and they need to change the colours on their end. I do not recall if it was the 'character.bic' file or the 'playerlist.ifo' on the server end - but it has been done before.

[chad878262]

Saying this....

I believe I am free to role-play dislike towards the casters of the said spell, just as a poryphobic character of mine would be towards a flinger of a fireball. Just as a druid role-played as nature's true guardian might shun the 'shadow druids' that spam Storm of Vengeance.

is very different from saying this...

A player character could be indeed evil and use evil spells, and already quite a number of neutral and good casters also use evil spell like Avasculate.

One is (incorrectly) stating that Avasculate is an evil spell while the other is acknowledging that RP'ing a dislike for the spell is acceptable (which is correct). While I would agree it SHOULD be an evil spell, to date the decision has been to leave it without Evil descriptor. The point is you're free to RP your character thinking any given spell is evil, but stating that it is evil on the forums is inaccurately representing server ruling on the matter.

For example you could create a bloodthirsty follower of Garagos/Talos and discover that the role-play this choice of deity brings is not exactly your cup of tea, in which case you just rename, adjust alignment, and swap deity to something more palatable.

Oh, and it is actually possible to adjust the colors of a pre-existing character. You just need to make use of the NWN1 save game editior and change the color values.

Or you could exploit the rules and change the name/look and feel of a character who has some negative consequence you wish to avoid and then start "RP'ing" that it is the same character in an elaborate disguise, or the twin of the other character or whatever... Essentially meta-gaming / god modding any players or DMs that might be looking to address or apply the consequence that character rightfully earned.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

I don't think this fits BGTSCC ideally.

[Sun Wukong]

Saying this.... is very different from saying this...

It is not. Avascular is a word for having few or no blood vessels. Hence, avasculate must mean an effect that causes the target to have few or no blood vessels. A character can find that absolutely evil and disgusting, and such a character might also have much to oppose in the Horrid Wilting spell. Perhaps a specialized wizard that has chosen Necromancy as their prohibited school.

Or you could exploit the rules and change the name/look and feel of a character who has some negative consequence you wish to avoid and then start "RP'ing" that it is the same character in an elaborate disguise, or the twin of the other character or whatever... Essentially meta-gaming / god modding any players or DMs that might be looking to address or apply the consequence that character rightfully earned.

If someone wants to avoid in character consequences, they already can. You can simply choose to not log in with that one character, or play during the off hours, or just RCR your character into something else and keep doing exactly what you have raised as an issue.

And speaking of 'rightfully earned consequences' - now that is just one big can of worms that needs some specific examples - because at times those are no more than 'out of character vendettas'...

[Sun Wukong]

I don't think this fits BGTSCC ideally.

Oh well, I'll give it few more years.

[chad878262]

It is not. Avascular is a word for having few or no blood vessels. Hence, avasculate must mean an effect that causes the target to have few or no blood vessels. A character can find that absolutely evil and disgusting, and such a character might also have much to oppose in the Horrid Wilting spell. Perhaps a specialized wizard that has chosen Necromancy as their prohibited school.

Um, yes it is. In one sentence you are claiming that good / neutral characters should not cast the spell... This is an OOC statement which would dictate that the rule is they should not do so, which is false. In the other statement you are stating IC'ly that a character can consider a spell evil even if it isn't, which is true.

If someone wants to avoid in character consequences, they already can. You can simply choose to not log in with that one character, or play during the off hours, or just RCR your character into something else and keep doing exactly what you have raised as an issue.

Not logging in with that character or RCR'ing them (with penalty to XP/levels) is not the same thing as using the same character with a new name and RP'ing them as some sort of long lost twin.

[Sun Wukong]

Um, yes it is. In one sentence you are claiming that good / neutral characters should not cast the spell... This is an OOC statement which would dictate that the rule is they should not do so, which is false. In the other statement you are stating IC'ly that a character can consider a spell evil even if it isn't, which is true.

I am speaking of my in game experience, and yes, I feel that good and neutral characters should not cast the spell. Because once you have asked them what the spell is called, and been kind enough to point towards what name of the spell actually means --- a large number of those good and neutral arcanists just go: 'Uuuuh... Umm... Error... 404 Page Not Found... Blue Screen of Death... Restarting to DOS... Logic.exe file not found...'

It is really no different than when that giddy brand new arcanist of good or neutral alignment runs around animating a bunch of dead, and someone goes and ruins the fun by pointing out why it might be frowned upon.

It is just a difficult situation to explain in character, and the player behind the character might become rather upset for it. In a way, in both cases, it is implied that they are not exactly doing good in character role-play. And yes, the spell does not have the descriptor in NWN2, but it still has that horrible name.

(Just rename it as Ray of Lethargy, and create custom Avasculate with evil descriptor +1 DC at the same spell level. Problem solved, once and for all.)

Not logging in with that character or RCR'ing them (with penalty to XP/levels) is not the same thing as using the same character with a new name and RP'ing them as some sort of long lost twin.

I am talking about taking steps to distance a pre-existing character from itself to create a brand new character. And as for same head models and colours, once again, my bearded half-elf met three other bearded half-elves with the exact same head model and beard colour. Were those half-elves my character's long lost brothers? Well, I did joke about it with one of the other half-elf characters... But still.

[chad878262]

Perhaps I am not explaining this right so I'll try one more time...

- What YOU do and how YOU will use such a mechanic has no bearing on how OTHERS would use such a mechanic.

- There are ways to exploit such a mechanic as a sort of impossible to beat disguise.

- There are ways to exploit such a mechanic to OOC'ly infiltrate a guild (i.e. Joe Black is a known Zhent, but by using a mechanic as you describe he is able to join the Harpers as Jake White. He then uses the mechanic again to change back to Joe Black and provides IC details to the Zhents about the identity of all the harpers, any plans/plots they have going on, etc.

In other words, there are exploitable issues with the mechanic you indicate that do not exist with the RCR tool, or at a minimum would be much more costly to the character with regard to XP and to the player in terms of time cost. I get you see this as a convenience, but when you consider what some less than altruistic players would use the mechanic for you see that it would have the potential to negatively impact many other players. I don't see why we should introduce a mechanic to make a few happy when it will most likely cause a ton of grief for many others.

[Sun Wukong]

- What YOU do and how YOU will use such a mechanic has no bearing on how OTHERS would use such a mechanic.

Live and let die. Live and let die...

- There are ways to exploit such a mechanic as a sort of impossible to beat disguise.

There is already an impossible to beat disguise. More of that in a moment.

- There are ways to exploit such a mechanic to OOC'ly infiltrate a guild (i.e. Joe Black is a known Zhent, but by using a mechanic as you describe he is able to join the Harpers as Jake White. He then uses the mechanic again to change back to Joe Black and provides IC details to the Zhents about the identity of all the harpers, any plans/plots they have going on, etc.

And currently that known Zhent Joe Black could just create a second login and a new character called Jake White on it. This Jake White is Chaotic Neutral or something like that, and thus has no problems joining the ranks of the Harpers. Jake White's background comes with a bit of a debt to pay, and thus he is always looking to earn a bit of coin from adventuring and what not. He gets around, goes around, and acquires information to the Harpers. Now, because the player behind Jake White knows the Zhents through Joe Black, he can easily reveal that keen desire to earn to earn coin to them. A trait, which the Zhents should know to abuse by default, and little by little the Zhents gain access to identity of all Harpers, any plans and plots they have going on, etc...

Now, the Harpers have a reason to permakill Jake White before he manages to ride into the horizon with that mountain of gold. The Harpers might attempt to claim his life, and acquire the gold on him, but it doesn't quite make up for the secrets they lost.

And Joe Black sits among the Zhent fire place, chuckling without a permakill strike, and making schemes to rid the region from the pesky Harps.

Doing it your way literally risks permakilling Joe Black proper. It makes more sense to create an alt login, if you wish to avoid the negative out comes.

[Snarfy]

And currently that known Zhent Joe Black could just create a second login and a new character called Jake White on it. This Jake White is Chaotic Neutral or something like that, and thus has no problems joining the ranks of the Harpers. Jake White's background comes with a bit of a debt to pay, and thus he is always looking to earn a bit of coin from adventuring and what not. He gets around, goes around, and acquires information to the Harpers. Now, because the player behind Jake White knows the Zhents through Joe Black, he can easily reveal that keen desire to earn to earn coin to them. A trait, which the Zhents should know to abuse by default, and little by little the Zhents gain access to identity of all Harpers, any plans and plots they have going on, etc...

Now, the Harpers have a reason to permakill Jake White before he manages to ride into the horizon with that mountain of gold. The Harpers might attempt to claim his life, and acquire the gold on him, but it doesn't quite make up for the secrets they lost.

And Joe Black sits among the Zhent fire place, chuckling without a permakill strike, and making schemes to rid the region from the pesky Harps.

Doing it your way literally risks permakilling Joe Black proper. It makes more sense to create an alt login, if you wish to avoid the negative out comes.

Oh for (do-me) sakes.

Actually, it doesn't make more sense to create an alt to blatantly metagame and violate the server rules with(as opposed to inventing a new identity with whatever RCR mechanic you're proposing), because any player who metagames in this fashion is going to be instantly called out by any number of players within said guilds(any with a modicum of decency and a sense of fair play at least, which I'll wager is everyone in almost any long-standing quality guild), and then both Joes, and the metagaming player, will be banned. How's that for negative outcomes and impossible to beat disguises?

Conversely, your little name/appearance swapping "RCR" idea will likely invite this kind of behavior, and, as rightly chad states, would only provide a sanctioned mechanical means for less than scrupulous players to abuse identity swapping. The only difference between both scenarios is that the latter identity abuser will enjoy the benefit of having X amount of RCR'd levels under his belt(to potentially cause IG problems with).

Either way, slapping a new exterior on an existing character runs the risk of becoming a steaming pile of meta-ooc-crapola.

Seriously, suggestions like these are getting tedious, and the arguments that support them are paper thin and not thought out at all.