Changing Dread Pirate Requirements

[Quidix]

The Issue
The benefits from the dread pirate class mean that one wants to take the class reasonably early on, so that one can get I-TWF early enough to then take G-TWF, TWD, I-TWD and G-TWD.

The dread pirate class requires 8 Appraise and 8 Lore: Geography - at first this sounds fine, but there's one key problem. If one cross-classes, one needs to get to level 13 before starting to take dread pirate levels, which means I-TWF comes at 19, which means there's no room to take any more TW feats (unless one wants to spend lots of epic feats). Essentially, if one doesn't have both Appraise and Lore: Geography as class skills, one cannot take Dread Pirate.

In general, I'm "okay" with it being tricky to qualify for, but I cannot understand why Rogue, the only class that's actually called out in the Dread Pirate description, suffers from this problem. As a result, Bard is probably the only natural choice that can readily qualify for the class.

"Thugs and cutthroats in every port lay claim to the title "pirate," but actually making a fortune through piracy is no easy task. A dread pirate, however, has mastered every aspect of larceny on the high seas. Some dread pirates accomplish their goals through fear, killing indiscriminately and ruling their ships at rapier-point. Others minimize bloodshed and exhibit a curious sort of chivalry. A dread pirate's lifestyle is ideal for most rogues, because the job requires a number of skills that other classes don't have the time or inclination to learn"


The Solutition
(1) Lower the Lore: Geography requirements to 4 (so that can be cross-skilled)
(2) Give rogues Lore: Geography as a class skill

[Steve]

These are the PnP reqs from Complete Adventurer:

Requirements
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Alignment: Any nonlawful.
Skills: Appraise 8 ranks , Profession (Sailor) 8 ranks , Swim 4 ranks , Use Rope 4 ranks
Feats: Quick Draw , Weapon Finesse
Special: The character must own a ship worth at least 10,000 gp. The method of acquisition—purchase, force of arms, or skullduggery—makes no difference, as long as he can freely operate it on the high seas.

[Sun Wukong]

Profession is a rogue class skill, and since Lore: Geography has replaced Profession as the skill requirement, I do not see a problem with Rogue getting Lore: Geography as a class skill.

Not to mention that the PRC is far better with that 3 level dip in Bard for Inspire Courage.

[chad878262]

Posted to QC forums to request a revision to more accurately represent classes that should have easier/faster access to Dread Pirate by lore.

[Hoihe]

Posted to QC forums to request a revision to more accurately represent classes that should have easier/faster access to Dread Pirate by lore.

How about Swashbuckler/Duelist combo? Swashbuckler has no access to any of the lore skills needed, and I'm pretty sure that swashbuckler tends to be insta-equated with sailor most of the time.

[chad878262]

Posted to QC forums to request a revision to more accurately represent classes that should have easier/faster access to Dread Pirate by lore.

How about Swashbuckler/Duelist combo? Swashbuckler has no access to any of the lore skills needed, and I'm pretty sure that swashbuckler tends to be insta-equated with sailor most of the time.

This actually started the thread many months ago (SB, regardless of Duelist or other PRC's). However, Rogue was also discussed. I believe there was some agreement that a change was needed in some fashion, but it never got in, probably due to other priorities. Hopefully a quick/easy change we can get in relatively quickly.

[aaron22]

i've been trying to get SB lore: geography for over a year now. I think my very first post in the forum was a request to get Lore: geo for swashy. it just makes sense... can we just do things that make sense?

seriously.

love you guys

[chad878262]

i've been trying to get SB lore: geography for over a year now. I think my very first post in the forum was a request to get Lore: geo for swashy. it just makes sense... can we just do things that make sense?

seriously.

love you guys

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=58266&p=733056#p733056

That is what spawned the original thread... Apologies it got dropped on the floor, but I suppose you were not a squeky enough wheel! I have bumped the thread from back then, as I said so hopefully something can be done relatively quickly.

[aaron22]

i made a request before that, but it might not have been saved on the transfer. perhaps it was a PM to the team. hard to recall yesterday, let alone a year. no matter. i think it is something that should be looked at.

it could have implications beyond the seeming natural progression of Swashy-DP. this unseen (by me) implication creating a power creep issue that would be undesirable.

[Hoihe]

i made a request before that, but it might not have been saved on the transfer. perhaps it was a PM to the team. hard to recall yesterday, let alone a year. no matter. i think it is something that should be looked at.

it could have implications beyond the seeming natural progression of Swashy-DP. this unseen (by me) implication creating a power creep issue that would be undesirable.

In all honesty, I doubt opening lore skills would lead to power creep - the greatest risk is if something is a class requirement and even then, most classes needing lore are already tied into classes that give coverage (mainly spellcasting classes).

While not PnP, having access to all lore skills for every base class except barbarian would only have benefits. Wizards/swashies would still dominate for lore due to int, so the paradigm wouldn't shift.

(For the record - this doesn't affect me one bit. Wizard + SD + Able Learner = access to every skill almost)

[Quidix]

Good to see the interest in this - Got a bit bummed when I realised my Rogue / Swash / Dread Pirate wasn't actually a possible combo (despite making total RP sense).

[Khazrak]

Let rogues and swashbucklers be proper pirates! Yarr! I want more pirates to smack open for dubloons!

*waves paladin beatstick*

But seriously, yeah, make it more accessible to the classes that are supposed to be dread pirates.

[aaron22]

and yea. applications that could create a build given the lore access are what i am thinking would be our only bump in the road here. perhaps cavestalker or wilderness stalker build that has some sort of trick when tied to swashy early opening up something that gives an abundant advantage.

[chad878262]

There is no issue... Really it boils down to not wanting to give them a skill that they don't get in PnP. There was a possible compromise in requiring 2 lore skills at 4 points instead of one at 8 which would still be cross-classing the skill, but at least would be able to hit that by level 5 instead of 13. In any case, I will try to push for a conclusion to the discussion and implementation. Feel free to hit me up in a couple weeks if no update comes through.

[Quidix]

Thanks Chad!

2 lore skills at 4 so that it could be cross-classed would be fine as well, as it enables an earlier unlock, which is key given the feats given (maybe local or history?).