S 7/F 3/AS 10/EK 10 or S 8/F 4/AS 8/EK 10?

[Sun Wukong]

Sorcerer 7/Fighter 3/Arcane Scholar 10/Eldritch Knight 10, or, Sorcerer 6/Fighter 4/Arcane Scholar 10/Eldritch Knight 10?

The blue build is something I had prior to current Polymorphing. The green build is what I could go for with the last three epic levels.

Blue build has caster level of 30.

Green build has caster level of 29, but it would get 26 BAB with Augment Form, and Improved Combat Expertise.

So, debate, which is better?

Edit: Topic name changed.

[Arn]

I think CL 29 is perfectly fine for almost all intents and purposes. It won't be dispelled by mobs much more than CL 30 (I have even heard that CL 28 is enough to be "immune" to Dispels, but cannot confirm this myself; and Mord's will wreck you no matter what).

CL 29 still gives you the last epic level DC bonus.

Your spell durations will still be pretty long.

Also, higher AB will be something you need more often than you need +1 CL. What I mean is, you won't need that 1 extra CL very often against dispels (and if 28 CL does indeed grant "immunity," maybe you'll never need that 1 extra CL against dispels). And how often will you be adventuring long enough that you reach the end of your buff durations and will need that 1 extra minute?

[Khazrak]

Gonna agree with Arn here. I think anywhere from 28-30 CL is perfectly fine for all intents and purposes; it's nice to have 30 CL, of course, and I'd never want to drop to 27 or lower if I could avoid it.

That said, it depends to me also as to what you're trying to get out of that Fighter level. +1 BAB is nice. Improved Combat Expertise + Augment Form sounds like a good way to go about playing a melee shapechanger to me, and tough enough to work, too.

[mrm3ntalist]

The green since you plan to play the build as a melee and use poly morph. One more AB, one more attack and a useful melee feat is far far better than the difference 1cl makes from 30 to 29.

[Sun Wukong]

Yeah, getting that 4th level of Fighter seems to be the best course of action. And anyhow, I was planning on getting it at level 30 so it is not that hard to swap it for a level of sorcerer if dispels drive me crazy.

[dedude]

Both builds ends up with 25 BAB with Augment Form:

Sorcerer 6: +4
Fighter 4: +4
Arcane Scholar 10: +7
Eld Knight 10: +10
Total: 25

[Sun Wukong]

Oh yeah, silly me... 16 Medium BAB levels + 14 High BAB levels often end up at 26 BAB.

It would be different with a Sorcerer 8/Arcane Scholar 8/Eldritch Knight 10/Fighter 4.
( 6 + 6 + 10 + 4 = 26)

Now, here is the next thing, should I go for the above build?

Original plan: Sorcerer 7/Fighter 3/Arcane Scholar 10/Eldritch Knight 10
- Gets caster level of 30, BAB of 25, Improved Quicken Spell for faster buff re-apply upon dispel.

Or the new: Sorcerer 8/Fighter 4/Arcane Scholar 8/Eldritch Knight 10
- Gets caster level of 29, BAB of 26 for 6th attack, has regular Quicken Spell, and Improved Combat Expertise for +6 AC.

Honestly, that was a good catch Dedude.

[Steve]

I highly doubt the 6th attack is going to be any good for your character. There are good and powerful options if you go for 5 APR, and invest in other things.

[Arn]

I guess I'd wonder what level 6 spells you need to Quicken? Is Bigby 6 still good?
I've noticed that Bigby 9 isn't quite the "I win" button it used to be.

[Sun Wukong]

Well, it does bring up an actual flaw on my character, he is missing the '20/Adamantine' DR spell for the tactic that I keep banging on about. (Elemental Shield + DR to minimise damage taken on yourself.)

But yeah, being able to cast Quickened Ethereal Visage/Greater Stone Skin would be a big boon on this type of character. But for me, for the most part, it would grant me the option to cast Quickened Greater Missile Storms... That is '154~ (Avarage) * 2 = 308~' damage in one round if both spells land.

[Arn]

I think it's become a judgment call now. Quickened level 6 spells are nothing to sneeze at, but then again you won't use them as often as the higher AB.

Does the contemplated RP suggest any particular direction? More of a melee guy or a caster?

[Deathgrowl]

I guess I'd wonder what level 6 spells you need to Quicken?

Greater Breach.

IGMS? (Probably not)

But moreover, you can quicken Displacement at 6 rather than 7, for instance, which is great. Or Lesser spell mantle at 8 rather than 9, freeing up your highest level slots for more powerful attack spells.

Improved quicken isn't just about quickening level 6 spells. It's about spell management too.

[Arn]

You had me at Greater Breach.

Wukong, you know what you must do.

[Sun Wukong]

My character is a dwarf, and therefore fighting suits him. His build prior to the Polymorphing changes was that of a Polymorphing Gish. Afterwards, I was lucky enough not to have levelled him all the way to 30, because I can fit in the Augment Form feat for +4 BAB, or +5 BAB if I adjust the build slightly. (Less Arcane Scholar, more Sorcerer and Fighter.)

Yet on the other hand, I do like spontaneous spell book management, and it is something that was actually planned for this build previously. While the build already works fine enough without Improved Quicken Spell, I do consider it a massive boon.

And that is the problem, now I am not sure which is better.

Not to mention that if Elemental Mastery ever changes the type of elemental damage dealt by Elemental Shield, I do feel more than tempted to change the build into a something with Archmage 8. I do think that Elemental Shield that deals Acid, Electric, Cold, or Fire damage would be a boon far greater than the loss of Arcane Scholar or BAB. I would go for Transmutation and perhaps Conjuration to boost potential summons. But all that said, I do not think I would do that without a 100% RCR. I mean, I recently RCR-ed a character down to level 20, and made a mess of the level up process, so I had to do the RCR again.

[Arn]

If this conversation wasn't over my head, it is now! I haven no clue about Archmage. ^_^;

I really am leaning more towards full ASoC though. 1 AB is good, especially if you're going to be spending most of your combat time in Shapeshift. And the extra Fighter feat is nifty. But I forgot just how much value sorcerers get out of metamagic feats. I was thinking too much in a Wizard mindset.

My vote is for full ASoC now.