Game Mechanics Discrimination

[NegInfinity]

talk of setting is pretty subjective. steve's UD setting, Invoker's UD setting and my UD setting are often completely different settings. the setting is not what it is supposed to be or what you think it should be. setting is what it is and what the people you make contact with make it.

I disagree.

Disagree with what, exaclty?

There are rulebooks and lorebooks, yes, but after reading those people often get different idea regarding "how things are meant to be", and individual player's/character's perception of the surrounding area is based solely on interactions with other players.

In case of sshamath, for example it is as Steve said earlier. First you have nice buildings full of corpses, npcs actively in process of making more, a bar dedicated to drow's murder-mating practice, and all that sinister and magical purple/dark surroundings.

However, an actual PC drow can be an extremely polite and friendly individual that behaves better than a priest of illmater. Now, you never know what the heck is he/she are up to, but it can be indeed as steve said - "I had more hostility at FAI'.

[Invoker]

Disagree with what, exaclty?

With the fact the setting doesn't exist, and only single, individual RP does.

The second happens within the first.

You dictate the second, but don't cry when things happen to your character because of the first.

I disagree with those that cry, basing the cries on the fact the setting "doesn't exist".

I hope it's clear enough.

[chad878262]

I disagree with those that cry,

Me too... Crying is wrong.

[aaron22]

Yes, but you misread. That's why I said lore AND SERVER LORE as well as DM RULINGS (which is, what BGTSCC made of the original setting). Check the quote.

There's nothing in that department so outlandish that it would prompt such a colossal deviation from canon lore as letting "random kivvil X" walk around Sshamath without a care in the world.

Just because you (generic, not you personally) haven't got a clue, it does not authorize you (again, generic) to do such kind of BS. It's like a Drow in the Duchal Palace, really.

that is where i think we are in agreement. left on our own devices, we (not me or you, but the GP as a whole) will eff up "acceptable" lore through ignorance, misunderstanding, building mechanics (just win baby), and acceptance. just to name a few. and really, what is there to stop us?

so the server's setting in the UD can make dramatic shifts in the way it is perceived. made worse by the low population and lack of DM support or supervision. one player acting funny in the UD can be 50% of the total pop at that time. you and funny. and lets say that is the first time you go down there and you meet up with funny guy. first impressions.

[Steve]

I'll admit that others can and probably do have—and had—a more Lore-based, Drow-respecting-the-Race-and-Setting experience, than I ever had.

I've attempted to RP a Drow as the Chaotic Evil type I learned from D&D sourcebooks, and repeatedly, has other Players tell me I'm being mean and difficult, IC and OOC. So obviously, I've had back luck and experience there.

I've attempted to RP a Svirf as the Race is described in the Sourcebooks, and had others say "why are you being so shy and difficult to RP with?" How can I explain?

I've attempted to RP a Duegar as the Race is described in the Sourcebooks, AND the BGTSCC, and found the reaction was "you're worthless being that I've skated by the thousands!" I just can't win!!!

If others think the UD overall (middledark & Upperdark) are doing well and the experience and Setting are super, than great, more power to you.

[chad878262]

I never thought in any of my time spent in the Underdark that it was not scary and to some extent I think that feeling is reliant upon the player in question to really try to see through the eyes of their PC. Just because that Drow is being 'nice' and giving you a free dagger, doesn't mean he/she won't later stab you in the back with the other one. This issue exists on the surface as well where many players OOC take everything someone else PC says as a point of fact, like they can't be lying or they'd roll bluff!

Taking what another player says or does as being a way to automatically type cast them as 'nice' or 'good' is a failure to consider that your PC had a different upbringing than you (the player). When someone you don't know offers you candy, do you take it? What if someone walked up and said "hey, I know where there is this cool cave...take this dagger and we'll go check it out together!" Apply this to the Underdark and, by necessity the PCs down there should be wary. This does not mean they can't group up, they just have to find IC reasons to do so and, maybe RP a little caution/fear/grudging respect for each other. End of the day if the drow were constantly killing each other as soon as they meet there'd be very few drow. However, the fact that they are always WILLING to kill each other (not to speak of 'lesser' races) deserves some respect in RP. Even a lifelong friend would be someone a drow is still wary of, but that doesn't mean they are going to telegraph to their friend that they are wary! So to some extent, it is about considering the perspective of the action and not just taking such actions at face value.

[Snarfy]

Just because you (generic, not you personally) haven't got a clue, it does not authorize you (again, generic) to do such kind of BS. It's like a Drow in the Duchal Palace, really.

Ding ding ding!

And so, here we are, sifting through multiple pages in multiple threads teeming with misguided cries of discrimination from, presumably, misguided players, and all because a handful of players(and by that I mean: a small army) decided that respecting the setting was less important to them than scampering all over the Upper/Underdark for XP and shinies like a pack of leprechauns on speed.

Talk about cause and effect, eh?

But, in all non-snarkiness(as if that were humanly possible for moi), I'm still of the opinion that surfacers should be KOS in the Upperdark/UD. Turn about being fairplay and all.

[NegInfinity]

This thread makes me wonder why nobody considered providing a surface area only accessible to UD races, where Drow could murder villagers for xp. Because drow raids and stuff....

[aaron22]

This thread makes me wonder why nobody considered providing a surface area only accessible to UD races, where Drow could murder villagers for xp. Because drow raids and stuff....

i cant even get one of those for orcs.. jeezus if drow get one....

[NegInfinity]

This thread makes me wonder why nobody considered providing a surface area only accessible to UD races, where Drow could murder villagers for xp. Because drow raids and stuff....

i cant even get one of those for orcs.. jeezus if drow get one....

Orcs and drow unite?

[Snarfy]

This thread makes me wonder why nobody considered providing a surface area only accessible to UD races, where Drow could murder villagers for xp. Because drow raids and stuff....

I'll wager it's likely because a village that continuously respawns villagers to be infinitely slaughtered is about as anti-immersion as it gets. And also because: setting, and stuff. Unless, of course, one somehow can wrap their head around the notion of surface villagers opting to live in/move to a location where their sole purpose for existing is to be raided by drow ad-infinitum. It's bad enough that the xvarts have been subjecting themselves to such forever.

[Valefort]

Give drows access to Uruk Lurra, job's done !

[NegInfinity]

I'll wager it's likely because a village that continuously respawns villagers to be infinitely slaughtered

And how is it different from the rest of the content on the server?

Plenty of the enemies on the server are intelligent, but remain in the same location despite being continuously murdered.

Speaking of which, you should know which contain humanoid enemies already.

[aaron22]

Give drows access to Uruk Lurra, job's done !

so they to can NOT get war drums from the merchant there too?

[chad878262]

We do need a place for commoners to spawn... New rule, when a player makes a new PC with the Commoner class they spawn in a town location that only links to the Underdark... If they survive the constant onslaught of drow 30 players they can make their way through the underdark and eventually come out on the 'real' surface. Since the only connection to the town is through the underdark it makes sense no one along the sword coast is aware of the constant drow raids (though it makes no sense how the town is being replenished of XP meat bags).

Of course, sense no PC ever dies every Commoner will have a tail of how they 'escaped' the slaughter of their entire village and went on a long a terrible journey through the very Underdark itself to come to the Sword Coast and escape the murderous drow. 'good' rp, that...