Game Mechanics Discrimination

[Flasmix]

I'd be open to many of those ideas. Really would! People mention Drow because they're what the vast majority of the players play. When I bring Wirg to the suface, for the past 2 years I've NEVER grinded or looted because I followed the rules and didn't want to get in trouble. I went up just to RP and never ran into issues.

Granted, I was level 30, so if I joined someone to help them in a dungeon I'm not grinding as there's no XP reward and I did not open a single chest or loot a corpse. Sometimes explaining to people that I'm simply not allowed to do so in the rules. I limited myself to what the mechanical system does now. So no, this change does affect my PC but it doesn't change anything from how I was already acting.

If you want to make a new thread and get the vast majority of the people to agree with the concessions you just listed, I promise you I'll push for changing the rules. Simple as that.

[NegInfinity]

I'd be open to many of those ideas. Really would! People mention Drow because they're what the vast majority of the players play. When I bring Wirg to the suface, for the past 2 years I've NEVER grinded or looted because I followed the rules and didn't want to get in trouble. I went up just to RP and never ran into issues.

Granted, I was level 30, so if I joined someone to help them in a dungeon I'm not grinding as there's no XP reward and I did not open a single chest or loot a corpse. Sometimes explaining to people that I'm simply not allowed to do so in the rules. I limited myself to what the mechanical system does now. So no, this change does affect my PC but it doesn't change anything from how I was already acting.

If you want to make a new thread and get the vast majority of the people to agree with the concessions you just listed, I promise you I'll push for changing the rules. Simple as that.

(-_-)

I'm getting flashbacks regarding the great tiefling tail debate and many failed propositions I made.

Alright.

Give me a minute or two. I'll make a thread.

[Steve]

So, I have some questions here.

First, if players want to RP that Drow—or any Underdarkers—get to the Surface for "raiding" or "slave catching" or whatever sensible RP that Drow are known for, then does the Staff really not want this to happen? By Canon Lore, it would be rarer than rare, for such a thing to happen, but not 100%. So if Players were willing to really put the RP into it, is there simply an OOC "no way we want this" that is the Rule that is going to stay?

Second, if Drow are going to be allowed on the Surface for Role-play reason (some examples listed above), but are OOC stymied from earning XP or Loot, which seems to the be the current paradigm, then IT IS ALLOWED for Drow/UD'ers to be on the Surface, for Role-play.

That also means that UD'ers on the Surface could be granted XP/Loot, both from direct DM oversight, as well, since a special Token was produced to be handed out to the Special Snowflakes, it is even more so "approved" to be legit, this UD'ers on the Surface.

So all that said, I ask the question: why do UD'ers feel the need to go to the Surface? Well, based on the past and recent-past Threads, the reasons seem to be: a) lack of UD PC population (i.e. boredom), b) lack of UD Areas for grinding, c) lack of DMs and Events to be a part of (though really...how many UD'ers are getting into Surface Events?!? ).

It has been proved time and again that the UD has a better Item payout for Looting, so, it seems that the Surface just has greater options and greater output for Grinding.

Does this all come down to Grinding on the Surface? The new Upperdark Areas were not able to provide enough Balance in Areas for UD'ers to stay in the UD?

If I go back to those 3 points I listed above, the answers would seem to be:

a) don't leave the UD for the Surface, so that by default, there are then more UD PCs in the UD (and not on the Surface! duh!)
b) Make 2-3 more Xvart or Hobgoblins or Yaun-Ti level Areas for the UD, so that UD'ers can speed Level.
c) Demand from the DM Team a dedicated DM is made from the Playerbase! DEMAND IT! lol. I actually mean ask nicely! But seriously, TheVoid made me a DM, and actually against my wishes, so that I could help him finish up the Black Orc war...and the rest is history, as they say. So the precedent is there for the Head DMs to cherry pick in order to make a DM for the UD, and thus, help Players realize their Game Fantasy Dreams in the Basement.

Case closed. You can thank me on the way out!

[NegInfinity]

I'd be open to many of those ideas. Really would! People mention Drow because they're what the vast majority of the players play. When I bring Wirg to the suface, for the past 2 years I've NEVER grinded or looted because I followed the rules and didn't want to get in trouble. I went up just to RP and never ran into issues.

Granted, I was level 30, so if I joined someone to help them in a dungeon I'm not grinding as there's no XP reward and I did not open a single chest or loot a corpse. Sometimes explaining to people that I'm simply not allowed to do so in the rules. I limited myself to what the mechanical system does now. So no, this change does affect my PC but it doesn't change anything from how I was already acting.

If you want to make a new thread and get the vast majority of the people to agree with the concessions you just listed, I promise you I'll push for changing the rules. Simple as that.

Here you go:
viewtopic.php?f=443&t=64746&p=809701#p809701

[aaron22]

im unsure, so maybe the more informed could assist. is there a lore basis for sshamath conducting raids on the surface? menzo has lore behind that, but sshamath seems different in principle of politics in this regard.

anyway. in my honest opinion, we should have a very long and very challenging barrier between the UpD and the surface. and the only way to short-cut this is under DM supervision.

this is just my opinion and would actually hurt my in game play quite a bit.

[NegInfinity]

im unsure, so maybe the more informed could assist. is there a lore basis for sshamath conducting raids on the surface? menzo has lore behind that, but sshamath seems different in principle of politics in this regard.

anyway. in my honest opinion, we should have a very long and very challenging barrier between the UpD and the surface. and the only way to short-cut this is under DM supervision.

this is just my opinion and would actually hurt my in game play quite a bit.

There used to be such barrier - netherese maze - and it was crazy and felt even worse than script wall.

Basically, such barrier only ensures that the strongest ones will make it through, and those will cause the most trouble.

[Flasmix]

There is zero lore basis for Sshamath to conduct surface raids. They are concerned with their own dealings and trading.

[Steve]

There is zero lore basis for Sshamath to conduct surface raids. They are concerned with their own dealings and trading.

So we're saying that Drow of BGTSCC are ONLY from Sshamath?

[Flasmix]

The only ones who would do surface raids are Lolthites pretty much. Even then, if they want to, I wouldn't be opposed to it if they had DM supervision to make sure they're not targeting lowbies. If they want to 'raid' a guild, they'll need that guilds permission first.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

c) Demand from the DM Team a dedicated DM is made from the Playerbase! DEMAND IT! lol. I actually mean ask nicely! But seriously, TheVoid made me a DM, and actually against my wishes, so that I could help him finish up the Black Orc war...and the rest is history, as they say. So the precedent is there for the Head DMs to cherry pick in order to make a DM for the UD, and thus, help Players realize their Game Fantasy Dreams in the Basement.

Had it, repeatedly didn't work, and often times the Mary Sue PCs generated from Salvatore books were upset because they didn't get their way. Lolthite attempts of a siege of Sshamath, Lolthite attempts at assassinating all members of two spell schools, Lolthite attempts at slavery (against the rules), Lolthite attempts at surface raiding just to raid, even when their targets have little to do with the grand scheme of the world (and how they come upon such a place on the surface, almost 250 miles from the exit without being encountered, to attack a small village numbering less than 30?) When there was an announced event it'd be mostly surfacers relogging as their UD alts to join in the 30 - 40 player count of an event run by mdwagner, grab the reward and log off. There's a multi pronged problem and without fixing all of those prongs none of them will stand on their own and quite frankly this server is better off without the UD now after ten years of failing to come to any reasonable conclusion on it.

I joined the DM team to help out on the UD front but after two months in I have never been as disappointed with what I had to work with for a large sum of the players there and their overall uninspiring goals for their characters, changing my focus instead to help the new players that come into the server.

The UD playerbase by large, in my personal declaration and as the very first drow player on this PW, has long deserved the removal of the UD from this PW.

Edit: To amend, there have been times when roleplay in the UD was thought out. Assassination attempts make sense with the culture, and the behavior is often confrontational, but to the point where you can't even roleplay this facet with one another and keep it in your proverbial pants, more than the lion's share decided to lash out against the remainder of the playerbase and egg on newcomers to the UD to the same problematic OOC behavior. Time to pull the cord on that treadmill.

To put it bluntly, why on earth would staff bother to put quality effort toward your character if you wont do it for yourself?

[aaron22]

what would you (flasmix as a DM on the team, or any that would like to add) do if me and my little group of orcs started whacking noobs on the surface? lets even say we are out "grinding/looting/rping" but it just so happens to be in a place where <15 level toons go often. and we are killing them in droves. with a pvp out of course. and it wasnt just once, reoccurring enough to be noticed.

[Flasmix]

Really depends if there's a lot of people making complaints. Assuming you're following the rules, what I'd do and have done is simply talk to you about it and ask if it's possible that you move onto another area and avoid it while informing you that people are complaining. Try to come to an understanding of sorts.

We'd of course have to look into the complaints and see if they hold merit, look at screenshots, evaluate what's going on. I'm not just going to approach you based on people saying stuff.

If no complaints are being made, nothing gets done.

[Deathgrowl]

There's also a point that people just seem to ignore entirely here. The intention is to discourage people being on the other side without proper RP reason. Drow, duergar and svirfnebli (but honestly mainly drow as a tendency) being on the surface should be extremely rare. Extreeeeemely rare. There's the sun. The distance. The dangers that ought to be in traversing the underdark and even getting to the surface.

Drow shouldn't even be wanting to go to the surface without a very clear goal. Not just "exporation". And the same can be said the other way around. Elves, humans and halflings in particular have no business wobbling about in the underdark. Including within humans should also be planetouched humans, as they are human offspring. Every. Single. One. So I've been confused ever since I started playing on the server as to why genasi and tieflings can somehow start in the underdark. I suppose they could be offspring of deep imaskari. What are even the deep imaskari doing this far west? But this is turning into a rant...

So for the people who are against the rule, that has been in place for many years, how do you address that? How do you lower the amount of drow characters (or other underdark characters) waddling around on the surface for no logical reason? Or do you simply not approve of the lore?

what would you (flasmix as a DM on the team, or any that would like to add) do if me and my little group of orcs started whacking noobs on the surface? lets even say we are out "grinding/looting/rping" but it just so happens to be in a place where <15 level toons go often. and we are killing them in droves. with a pvp out of course. and it wasnt just once, reoccurring enough to be noticed.

Ask how well received the Blood Claws and Khogans (or whatever they were called) were.

[LISA100595]

None of this would be needed if the individual rule breakers were punished for breaking the rules that have been in place forever here.... then the rest of us do not have to suffer for it.

[professiondude]

None of this would be needed if the individual rule breakers were punished for breaking the rules that have been in place forever here.... then the rest of us do not have to suffer for it.

+1