Should Magic have gold cost associated?

[Planehopper]

This thread is a mess. This is a final reminder to several of you to abide by the forum rules of "no trolling". If you can't figure it out, don't participate.

Thanks.

[aaron22]

its just fun mister. either join in and get a giggle or not. whatever.

your idea is not terribad at all, but i think the original concept of materials for V,S,Ms were tongue and cheek jokes not meant to be actually roleplayed seriously. i mean animal friendship requires a bit of food??? thats a joke. see? flesh to stone... lime, water and earth.. hilarious. see?

RPing it is fine and all. make a mechanic for it is great. things are rarely put from suggestion to live, so dont get your hopes too high. and if they do.... they are nothing like you would think.

[Reckeo]

its just fun mister. either join in and get a giggle or not. whatever.

your idea is not terribad at all, but i think the original concept of materials for V,S,Ms were tongue and cheek jokes not meant to be actually roleplayed seriously. i mean animal friendship requires a bit of food??? thats a joke. see? flesh to stone... lime, water and earth.. hilarious. see?

RPing it is fine and all. make a mechanic for it is great. things are rarely put from suggestion to live, so dont get your hopes too high. and if they do.... they are nothing like you would think.

The issue isn't the joke here or there, it's that it bumps the progression of the thread when we have been putting a lot of thought into this in order to enrich RP. Not everyone has the same sense of humor, but it has blatantly bordered and passed the line of respect into total disrespect on more than one occasion, and our efforts to ignore and re-direct the conversation back to thread relevance has been subverted much more than just a few times, despite our humble requests to do so without being put under a moderators spot light.

This isn't joking, it's forum sabotage under a veil of it.

We didn't do this, the disrespectful jokers did by violating forum rules, plain and simple.

At this point, all we get are vague warnings and flat out disrespectful, sarcastic and exaggerated imaginative 'slippery slope' responses without engaging us in a productive, respectful, adult like manner: it is not an exaggeration to say that this is a drastic shift in tone of the conversations that I and Incarnate have engaged in, while attempting to implement other people's ideas to reach a viable consensus on what may enrich RP.

That's what this forum is for. Not pseudo intellectual fencing/debate battles on who can school who in the funniest way with memes and get the cool kid trophy for the day. The forum speaks for itself, I've gone through, read, and re-read these in their entirety, and it is becoming more and more apparent that there are some serious forum rules that are being violated, and now it's being addressed properly.

We demonstrated much more patience than was required, and now we will continue the discussion as adults adhering to forum rules.

[Incarnate]

its just fun mister. either join in and get a giggle or not. whatever.

your idea is not terribad at all, but i think the original concept of materials for V,S,Ms were tongue and cheek jokes not meant to be actually roleplayed seriously. i mean animal friendship requires a bit of food??? thats a joke. see? flesh to stone... lime, water and earth.. hilarious. see?

RPing it is fine and all. make a mechanic for it is great. things are rarely put from suggestion to live, so dont get your hopes too high. and if they do.... they are nothing like you would think.

It might be its "just" fun, but its actively derailing the thread were people are trying to actually be serious about it, in fact have specifically asked that people only add constructive criticism, constructive ideas and proposals that will further the process productively, and that they approach it thoughtfully and with respect. So how is it any of this, if you people are just making fun of it? ...no people should not join in on the fun, because it should not happen, its quite frankly very disrespectful to do to both the OP and to the people who're actively engaged in the discussion.

Also, I agree with Reckeo:

This isn't joking, it's forum sabotage under a veil of it.

We didn't do this, the disrespectful jokers did by violating forum rules, plain and simple.

At this point, all we get are vague warnings and flat out disrespectful, sarcastic and exaggerated imaginative 'slippery slope' responses without engaging us in a productive, respectful, adult like manner: it is not an exaggeration to say that this is a drastic shift in tone of the conversations that I and Incarnate have engaged in, while attempting to implement other people's ideas to reach a viable consensus on what may enrich RP.

That's what this forum is for. Not pseudo intellectual fencing/debate battles on who can school who in the funniest way with memes and get the cool kid trophy for the day. The forum speaks for itself, I've gone through, read, and re-read these in their entirety, and it is becoming more and more apparent that there are some serious forum rules that are being violated, and now it's being addressed properly.

We demonstrated much more patience than was required, and now we will continue the discussion as adults adhering to forum rules.

If you have anything to constructive to add to the suggestion that Reckeo and I came up with, then by all means go ahead.

[aaron22]

then i apologize to you both and the rest of the forum for my participation in derailing your discussion.

i would like to note that derailed is something that should have been done on page one when...

As noted, the idea is appreciated, but it probably won't be taken up here.

For everyone's general awareness, we try to (as an overall design philosophy) avoid anything that will make the game feel more like a "chore" for players.

Realism and pen-and-paper mechanics take a backseat here sometimes, but ultimately we want players to feel like their free time here is being (mostly) spent in productive, enjoyable, and meaningful ways.

what is the goal? to make casters more respectful of their spellbook? to bring another mechanic to spell casting that may or may not be RPed? i am unsure what the goal is for it.

personally i think that many players(including myself) are acting more ooc then they should in terms of magic usage. right now its just a 2-3 minute yoga session like putting on my character's shoes and coat before leaving the house. i can know it and want to RP it better, but havent got a clue on how to. especially if doing it all by myself. do i RP it by myself? seems weird.

i really don't think that adding a bag that needs filled will really change it anymore than i make sure i have my lesser resto pots and heal kits for my fighter. it is kind of RPed, but not really.

[Reckeo]

then i apologize to you both and the rest of the forum for my participation in derailing your discussion.

i would like to note that derailed is something that should have been done on page one when...

As noted, the idea is appreciated, but it probably won't be taken up here.

For everyone's general awareness, we try to (as an overall design philosophy) avoid anything that will make the game feel more like a "chore" for players.

Realism and pen-and-paper mechanics take a backseat here sometimes, but ultimately we want players to feel like their free time here is being (mostly) spent in productive, enjoyable, and meaningful ways.

what is the goal? to make casters more respectful of their spellbook? to bring another mechanic to spell casting that may or may not be RPed? i am unsure what the goal is for it.

personally i think that many players(including myself) are acting more ooc then they should in terms of magic usage. right now its just a 2-3 minute yoga session like putting on my character's shoes and coat before leaving the house. i can know it and want to RP it better, but havent got a clue on how to. especially if doing it all by myself. do i RP it by myself? seems weird.

i really don't think that adding a bag that needs filled will really change it anymore than i make sure i have my lesser resto pots and heal kits for my fighter. it is kind of RPed, but not really.

First, it wasn't you that was guilty of derail, for the most part you've been respectful. I wouldn't even expect or think an apology from you was necessary, but appreciate the gesture.

Welcome to the discussion.

The goal isn't necessarily to implement something like you described. We are merely discussing and brainstorming at this point, ways we can encourage RP of magic to be more lore appropriate and more in line with PnP. There's a lot that's already been discussed and the other thread regarding use of magic in the realm RP wise. A lot of folks saw 'GP' cost association for casting, or suggestion of regeants, and went completely off the rails with it.

Meanwhile Incarnate and I have continued in the dialogue and progressed from GP cost, to a component bag. We're trying to reach the next phase of suggestions in development and are open to ideas, but have at this point been met mostly with sarcasm and memes that grossly, and inappropriately exaggerate any sort of impact this would have without allowing the suggestions and ideas to continue growing.

[CleverUsername123]

...

Again: NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. You've offered ZERO actual reasons for this, ZERO good ideas for it, ZERO arguments in favor of it.

It will make nothing more "meaningful", it won't make anyone more "mindful" of anything, it would be a giant annoyance. It benefits no one and hurts everyone who casts spells. There's no point to it. There are no actual reasons for it (you've said how much you want it and how much you don't like the current system. and basically nothing else.), there are no good arguments in favor of it, and overall it's just a bad idea.

Edit: In response to Reckeo:

...

All of your ideas so far are just as bad as the original though. It benefits no one, it just hurts spellcasters in an arbitrary and needless way. Fighters don't need "muscle bags" to hit things. Why should wizards need "component bags" to do their thing? It's ridiculous and just generally an AWFUL idea.

[CommanderKrieg]

No.


Are you kidding me?

[Reckeo]

No.


Are you kidding me?

No.


Are you antagonizing OP?

[Young Werther]

How about you edit the spell description and include the material componet in the it's text. Seems to be prerequisite to the idea as those without source books have no idea. I'd do that and leave it at that no IG mechanic. Also how do these compnets interact with meta-magic if at all? Curious.

[Reckeo]

How about you edit the spell description and include the material componet in the it's text. Seems to be prerequisite to the idea as those without source books have no idea. I'd do that and leave it at that no IG mechanic. Also how do these compnets interact with meta-magic if at all? Curious.

At this point, a simple addition to the flavor text of spells would be welcome, and a progressive step in the right direction, IMO. It's small enough the BGTSCC Forum pitch fork mob shouldn't even complain about that, but at this point I really wouldn't be surprised if they did since most of the responses are based on irrational fears like some sort of castration anxiety induced hysteria.

We want to add pouches not take them.

I can be funny too.

And apparently no one else has any better ideas other than screaming "NO" at the top of their lungs and stamping their feet like a 5 year old child being told to go to bed. I've seen children who handle this with better grace.

Were just looking at PnP and saying....Dear Casters.....it's past your bed time.

Oh dear.....I can be sarcastic too?

[Young Werther]

Well some people like to play with high sleight of hand and think it's kinda interesting from the RP perspectives. I've seen people RP component bags too. Mechanically it's meh to me and my cleric has a limited inventory.

Oh and don't mind them pitchforks they are just bored.

[Incarnate]

Well some people like to play with high sleight of hand and think it's kinda interesting from the RP perspectives. I've seen people RP component bags too. Mechanically it's meh to me and my cleric has a limited inventory.

Oh and don't mind them pitchforks they are just bored.

I'm not sure if you realize it, but the spell component pouch is really just one item, unless you decide to carry more, which most likely could be made stackable.

The mechanics with the spell pouch isn't to enforce rp'ing using spell components specific to certain spells, but it is to bring spellcasting more in line with what the rules and lore states, and its is to enhance and enrich the spellcasting culture and the perspective on magic as a whole. Because as it is now its being represented as something its definitely not.

For instance, being able to regain spells so often and fast, where it would normally take a full rest of 8 hours plus additional time to memorize/pray for spell - which depending on the system would be at least 15 minutes to 1 hour, but if we're to more historically correct as the current puts pre 1st edition, then it would be 15 minutes per spell level per spell, so it would take a lot longer to regain spells - which would dramatically change how and when people use their spells. Obviously, this is isn't viable in the game, so we need something to make people use their spells when it matters rather than just cast them because they can and/or for the sake of casting. Also, since spells can be regained so quickly it means that many will freely offer buffs and wards to strangers, which basically makes impossible for other spellcasters to make a business out of selling their magical services. This is just a couple good reasons why we think it should be implemented.

[Flasmix]

As someone who hates grinding, this would force me to grind for gold or 'components' just to cast magic.

Why do we want to promote grinding? I don't have hours upon hours to play, when I come home from work I just want to RP. Going to dungeons is the last thing on my mind.

[Hawke]

Ok.

I think that a nice 24 hour lock down on this thread is needed as everyone with vested interest is getting a bit hot.

If I forget to unlock this, just let me know after 24 hours.