Commoner Warlocks

[Sun Wukong]

I suggest a feat:

Commoner's Infernal/Abyssmal/Fey Pact (DM granted.)

Effect: You have formed a pact with otherwordly powers and therefore your commoner levels stack with Warlock levels for eldritch blast and caster level progression, however, this does grant any other perks of the Warlock class.

Additionally, depending on the pact type you gain following penefits: (Tied to Commonener levels.)'




So, any thoughts?

[Valefort]

I fail to see the point. First you can take practiced invoker unless you want more than 4 commoner levels and then the differences between commoner and warlock levels, outside of caster and blast progressions, are small unless you want to go something like warlock 3/ Commoner 27.

Wouldn't it be silly to see a CL 30 mostly commoner PC ? As far as I'm concerned my thoughts are : no.

[Sun Wukong]

Commonener 27/Warlock 3... With one or two least invocations?

[chad878262]

How does one gain the experience to be a 27th level commoner? I mean seriously, that should be the one class that is outside of the 3b20 requirement and you should only need take 1 level... Because as soon as you start earning experience you are no longer a commoner!

[Hoihe]

How does one gain the experience to be a 27th level commoner? I mean seriously, that should be the one class that is outside of the 3b20 requirement and you should only need take 1 level... Because as soon as you start earning experience you are no longer a commoner!

Chad has a good point.

A commoner is someone without the internal drive, luck and arguably divine favor of an adventurer, even if that favor comes from just Tymora and Shaundacool.

A commoner with power to rival an adventurer class is an adventurer class.

[Incarnate]

How does one gain the experience to be a 27th level commoner? I mean seriously, that should be the one class that is outside of the 3b20 requirement and you should only need take 1 level... Because as soon as you start earning experience you are no longer a commoner!

Actually, that is quite incorrect:
D20SRD.ORG - Commoner - If what you say is correct then a commoner wouldn't have any levels which they do - in fact the class has up to 20 levels - but an epic commoner just seems wrong. They gain experience just like everyone else, except that they get it at much slower pace as they're getting it from living their live, working their vocation, tending their family, etc. It really doesn't make sense for a commoner to take adventure, and if so, then that would indicate a quite radical change of direction for the character, or the very least a change in career. For most part taking levels in a different class than the main npc class would be a change in career.

So a Commoner 27/Warlock 3 would seem very off in the setting, as most commoners in PnP only reach around level 5, so on the server would likely be around level 10. Certainly not above 20+.

A commoner is someone without the internal drive, luck and arguably divine favor of an adventurer, even if that favor comes from just Tymora and Shaundacool.

That is just not correct - this is from the 3.5 DMG about the commoner class:
The common folk farm the fields, staff the shops, build the homes, and produce the goods in the world around the adventurers. Commoners usually have no desire to live the dangerous life of an adventurer and none of the skills needed to undertake the challenges adventurers must face. Commoners are skilled in their own vocations and make up the majority of the population. Commoners make poor adventurers. This class should be reserved for everyone who does not qualify for any other class.

[Blackman D]

This class should be reserved for everyone who does not qualify for any other class.

which would mean that as soon as you qual for any other class and take levels in said class you are restricted from gaining more commoner levels...

[Incarnate]

This class should be reserved for everyone who does not qualify for any other class.

which would mean that as soon as you qual for any other class and take levels in said class you are restricted from gaining more commoner levels...

Not quite. Honestly, I'm not sure why its worded this way, because its just another way of saying, those that doesn't qualify for any other class will always qualify for this one. In previous edition each class had a class ability minimums, some even had secondary or tertiery ability stat requirements. Some still do have ability requirements - the spellcasters casting ability. To mention a few, fighters was a minimum of 9 strength, rogues was a minimum 9 Dex, paladin was str: 12|con:9|wis:13|cha:17, specialist wizards also had these requirements, necromancers|int:9|wis:16|, invoker: int:9|con:16. So it could be based around these, or simply the fact that each class has specific abilities that they require for one to function properly, so if one has below 10 in 3.5 they would be a poor fit for the class, where those with 10 can at least function in them - with the exception for spellcasters as they require a higher casting ability stat to work better at the higher levels as they simply won't be able to cast the spells their casting ability doesn't support.

Back on Topic:
As stated:

Effect: You have formed a pact with otherwordly powers and therefore your commoner levels stack with Warlock levels for eldritch blast and caster level progression, however, this does grant any other perks of the Warlock class.

So let me get this straight, you want a feat that basically gives you FULL progression as a warlock? Because this is pretty much what it sounds like and if so. Yep, the feat isn't balanced at all, and very, very far from it.

There is no reason to implement it as taking a level in the class warlock represents making a pact with either of those mentioned and one can the progress in the class as normal and if necessary grab practiced invoker.

[Sun Wukong]

So let me get this straight, you want a feat that basically gives you FULL progression as a warlock? Because this is pretty what it sounds like and if so. Yep, the feat isn't balanced at all, and very, very far from it.

You do not gain invocations or blast shapes from commoner levels, only from from Warlock levels. What you do get is bit of eldritch blast dice, and caster level for the one or two invocations you have. (On a Commoner 27/Warlock 3 build.)

As for level a commoner, crossbow sniper...

[Incarnate]

So let me get this straight, you want a feat that basically gives you FULL progression as a warlock? Because this is pretty what it sounds like and if so. Yep, the feat isn't balanced at all, and very, very far from it.

You do not gain invocations or blast shapes from commoner levels, only from from Warlock levels. What you do get is bit of eldritch blast dice, and caster level for the one or two invocations you have. (On a Commoner 27/Warlock 3 build.)

As for level a commoner, crossbow sniper...

Let me point something out, because your wording is wrong if that is what you want to do.

Effect: You have formed a pact with otherwordly powers and therefore your commoner levels stack with Warlock levels for eldritch blast and caster level progression, however, this does grant any other perks of the Warlock class.

The bolded and underlined parts is where it goes wrong, because with that you're saying that the commoner levels is added to your caster level progression, which also includes getting invocations, blast shapes & essences. But its also stating that it also grants any other perks of the warlock class, which essentially saying you also get all the class features on each level.

Honestly, someone playing a commoner shouldn't be out adventuring, because as soon as they do that, they should select a different class and level that one. Notice the commoner description - 3.5 DMG about the commoner class:
The common folk farm the fields, staff the shops, build the homes, and produce the goods in the world around the adventurers. Commoners usually have no desire to live the dangerous life of an adventurer and none of the skills needed to undertake the challenges adventurers must face. Commoners are skilled in their own vocations and make up the majority of the population. Commoners make poor adventurers. This class should be reserved for everyone who does not qualify for any other class.

[Sun Wukong]

There is a difference between caster level progression and spellcasting progression, or in the case of warlock, invocation progression.

[Diamore]

People who want to play a commoner can do exactly what they want with one.

A commoner decides to be a caravan guard but hasn't been trained for years as a fighter.

A commoner decides to take up pick pocketing but doesn't have the killer instincts (or natural skill) of a rogue.

It is a poor class, but no-one should be telling you what you should or shouldn't be doing with it. That said, there is no reason at all to give some kind of feat synergy with any other class. Commoner is a bad choice in all situations, but its your bad choice to make.

A skill based line of feats would be good for them though. Eg. Feat: Apothecary +2 Medicine +2 Arcane Lore, Commoner Only. Make them able to be taken multiple times and you have a few different flavorful and somewhat useful new commoners to RP around town. If that's your poison.

[Aeb Ankor]

This...

People who want to play a commoner can do exactly what they want with one.

A commoner decides to be a caravan guard but hasn't been trained for years as a fighter.

A commoner decides to take up pick pocketing but doesn't have the killer instincts (or natural skill) of a rogue.

It is a poor class, but no-one should be telling you what you should or shouldn't be doing with it. That said, there is no reason at all to give some kind of feat synergy with any other class. Commoner is a bad choice in all situations, but its your bad choice to make.

A skill based line of feats would be good for them though. Eg. Feat: Apothecary +2 Medicine +2 Arcane Lore, Commoner Only. Make them able to be taken multiple times and you have a few different flavorful and somewhat useful new commoners to RP around town. If that's your poison.

[Incarnate]

People who want to play a commoner can do exactly what they want with one.

A commoner decides to be a caravan guard but hasn't been trained for years as a fighter.

A commoner decides to take up pick pocketing but doesn't have the killer instincts (or natural skill) of a rogue.

It is a poor class, but no-one should be telling you what you should or shouldn't be doing with it. That said, there is no reason at all to give some kind of feat synergy with any other class. Commoner is a bad choice in all situations, but its your bad choice to make.

A skill based line of feats would be good for them though. Eg. Feat: Apothecary +2 Medicine +2 Arcane Lore, Commoner Only. Make them able to be taken multiple times and you have a few different flavorful and somewhat useful new commoners to RP around town. If that's your poison.

I'm not saying they can't but I'm just pointing out rp and lore-wise that is what would make sense, because leveling the commoner class represents becoming better in their vocation - which isn't what they're doing when they're adventuring. From a mechanics perspective, if they want to level a poor class, then thats their choice but from an rp perspective it doesn't make sense, thats all.

[aaron22]

I'm not saying they can't but I'm just pointing out rp and lore-wise that is what would make sense, because leveling the commoner class represents becoming better in their vocation - which isn't what they're doing when they're adventuring. From a mechanics perspective, if they want to level a poor class, then thats their choice but from an rp perspective it doesn't make sense, thats all.

with that logic my barbarian (for example) should not gain xp from RP unless the RP is something that would progress his ability as a barbarian and learning barbarian stuffs.