BGTSCC and the state of Crafting

[Valefort]

No, you're equating "there is no crafting system atm despite years of waiting" with "there will never be a crafting system", check your logic. And results are not only working systems but designs of systems, those partially exist.

[Muckluck]

Amount of effort spent does not matter when there is no result.
Only result is important.
There is no result right now.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold your horses there, buddy. I wanted to invite people to have a creative discussion and Q&A.

For a free server where no one is paid for their work, I would say that effort spent matters a LOT. Yes, we may not get what we are hoping for (comprehensive crafting system), but every minute spent trying to do one thing with the code lets them understand, learn and improve other aspects of BGTSCC as well. If you're a shareholder of a publicly listed corporation, then yeah, you get to say that results matter, not effort. But this is a crowdfunded and crowdsourced free server, where the only right you have to demand anything of the sort is if you're offering to do it yourself.

On a more positive/constructive note, how does spell, wand and potion making work currently (making an exception for alchemist's fire etc)? I noted blank wands are expensive as all hell, making it prohibitive to make "weak" spell wands. I also understand recharging a wand is incredibly expensive?

[NegInfinity]

No, you're equating "there is no crafting system atm despite years of waiting" with "there will never be a crafting system", check your logic. And results are not only working systems but designs of systems, those partially exist.

My logic is fine, thank you.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold your horses there, buddy. I wanted to invite people to have a creative discussion and Q&A.

What is there to discuss exactly? There has been a lot of talk crafting systems, propositions, designs, etc, over years. The result is the same no proper crafting/enchantment system. So, talking about it is pointless. There are bazillions of different ideas bured everywhere on the forum, none of them are available live. Nothing to discuss at this point.

At the same time, other servers created superior systems while having less resources than bgtscc did.

For a free server where no one is paid for their work, I would say that effort spent matters a LOT.

I'm sorry, but it really doesn't matter at all.
A practical example is if you try to dig out a pond with a teaspon. Lots of effort, little progress. Even if many people take turns over years. Best to grab a shovel or get an excavator, and not feel pride over using a teaspoon.
Result is important, and not how you go about achieving it. If something takes too long, it might make sense to rethink the approach taken.

Because server is unpaid, then whoever participates in creation of crafting system is supposed to do it for fun and get their share of fun while working. That doesn't change the fact that there's no finished product/result.

Hence the amount of effort spent doesn't matter. Also, because of this people shouldn't attempt to use amount of effort they spent "heroically" sacrificing their free time as an argument. They were supposed to enjoy the process to begin with, and payoff for the process was that enjoyment. If they didn't enjoy the process and did it to get "recognition" or other nonsense they should probably rethink their approach.

how does spell, wand and potion making work currently (making an exception for alchemist's fire etc)? I noted blank wands are expensive as all hell, making it prohibitive to make "weak" spell wands. I also understand recharging a wand is incredibly expensive?

You should check the wiki for master alchemist.
Master alchemist reduces potion creation costs, and allows higher level elixirs to be bottled.
IIRC there's also a hook for wandmaking and scroll casting, that allows you to specify caster level for spells written this way.

Unfortunately, I do not know details, because my level30 wizard has been shelved for months.

In addition to that, the game has one "craftable" item called gibberling heart which can be acquired from a low level area from a boss. This item has custom dialogue that allows crafting of a few small items. Same areas have two spawn points that run craft checks as well.

Three or four kind of monsters (3 types of beetles, one type of spider) upon death remotely spawn animal parts in your inventory, in desperate attempt to get you overcumbered. Those animal parts can be refined for something like 50 gold or occasional antitdote.

There are also like 4 or 5 plants (on the whole server) that can be harvested using alchemy check, resulting in low level healing items.

But that's pretty much it.

You can't enchant or forge your weapons, armors and equipment.

[NeonAvenger]

... So, my fellow BGTSCCians, regale me with your fine knowledge!

I've PM'd you a copy of my old crafting notes but they are horribly out of date, I would suggest harrassing either Pimple or lum as I think that they are actively running crafters at the moment.

[NegInfinity]

... So, my fellow BGTSCCians, regale me with your fine knowledge!

I've PM'd you a copy of my old crafting notes but they are horribly out of date, I would suggest harrassing either Pimple or lum as I think that they are actively running crafters at the moment.

Yes, that might be a good idea. Pimple should know the existing systems through and through.

[chad878262]

Negs, you really seem to know better then everyone else and expect more then anyone else. If you can do it better why not build your own server? Cuz you really don't seem very happy with what this one offers; or fails to offer... You have the skillset as a developer so it's not like it's impossible for you to do it.

[Tsidkenu]

Besides reminding the community to remain civil in their interpersonal interactions, I just wanted to say that there is a fully functioning enchanting system already extant on the server right now. Those with cleric and/or wizard levels can already see the spells available for use with it, although as Valefort noted it is currently disabled for players and only enabled for QC test characters.

What yet remains is refinement of the system's final form and discussion regarding things like:

• Spell components and other costs.
• Extent of enchantments in comparison to general server magical power.
• Place of Crafting proper, that is, making iron/cold iron/silver/wood/leather unenchanted base items.
• Other skills required to supplement the system, eg. mining, jeweller, tanner, etc.
• Incorporating all the above into a balanced, cohesive whole with respect to the existing economy.

While it may be a slow process, as any project run by (sometimes demotivated) volunteers can only tend to be, it is not fair on them that they should have to be once again subjected to this kind of 'demand for more' from what they probably perceive to be an occasionally rapacious player-base.

They're building our world as a hobby. There's absolutely no need for us players to make that hobby a chore and I believe patience will go much further in seeing this baby come to birth. Please.

[Blackman D]

crafting has been "coming soon" over 9 yrs but the problem is that someone will work on it, get burnt out and stop, then it gets passed to someone else, they get burnt out and stop, passed again...

the last one it was passed to was Ras and it should be, last i checked, "done" but there were other issues that came up that hindered it going in, mostly economic stuff no one could agree on for a while

they are however, not wanting to put it in and have issues that can be sorted out first so...

"coming soon!"

[Aspect of Sorrow]

Sending up a few files to QC to give them something to do. Whitelisting properties. We'll just build from there.

[joleda]

Making a crafting decision doesn't have to be rocket surgery. All you need to do is limit enchanting to player made weapons. Limit the number of enchantments to a total of three. Pick any three from enhancement, skill, feat, elemental damage. Each of the benefits can be restricted for balance reasons. Limit the feat selection to power critical, improved critical, etc., limit the elemental damage to 1d2 or something similar, and limit the enhancement to +4. You could even incorporate a formula so that the total of the three enchantments must be below a certain 'power' value. The player gets to customize their gear and the economy has an extra avenue for growth; monster loot and player crafted.

A long defunct server, The Forgotten Realm, did something very similar. They limited each item to 4 'values' and the kicker was, certain values counted even when you didn't want them to. Such as, weight reduction, material component, etc. The end result was the player made adamantine weapon had fewer 'enchantment slots' than an ordinary iron weapon. There was always a trade off. Players ended up having multiples of weapons for various scenarios and the economy took off. That might have been the lone good spot of that server, well along with the drow city, that is. ...

My two copper...

[NegInfinity]

Besides reminding the community to remain civil in their interpersonal interactions, I just wanted to say that there is a fully functioning enchanting system already extant on the server right now. Those with cleric and/or wizard levels can already see the spells available for use with it, although as Valefort noted it is currently disabled for players and only enabled for QC test characters.

What yet remains is refinement of the system's final form and discussion regarding things like:

• Spell components and other costs.
• Extent of enchantments in comparison to general server magical power.
• Place of Crafting proper, that is, making iron/cold iron/silver/wood/leather unenchanted base items.
• Other skills required to supplement the system, eg. mining, jeweller, tanner, etc.
• Incorporating all the above into a balanced, cohesive whole with respect to the existing economy.

While it may be a slow process, as any project run by (sometimes demotivated) volunteers can only tend to be, it is not fair on them that they should have to be once again subjected to this kind of 'demand for more' from what they probably perceive to be an occasionally rapacious player-base.

They're building our world as a hobby. There's absolutely no need for us players to make that hobby a chore and I believe patience will go much further in seeing this baby come to birth. Please.

This system had a problem with warlock, sorcerer and bard crafters. Because instead of utilizing existing feats (craft wondrous items, etc), it for some reason switched to custom spells that never existed in the first place.

This issue has been raised when the system was "just about to go live" two or three years ago.

As joleda said, there's no reason to make it too complicated.

Standard MOTB/SOZ crafting system is decent enough, and could simply be tweaked to reduce number of properties and their power.

This has been done on sigil. Plug in essence sources, limit number of enchantments, and limit number of enchantment recipes, limit recipes to a caster level.

Much simpler and much faster. While reinventing the wheel is certainly more fun for the developer, it also takes longer and has a chance of never being finished.

[Blackman D]

Making a crafting decision doesn't have to be rocket surgery. All you need to do is limit enchanting to player made weapons. Limit the number of enchantments to a total of three. Pick any three from enhancement, skill, feat, elemental damage. Each of the benefits can be restricted for balance reasons. Limit the feat selection to power critical, improved critical, etc., limit the elemental damage to 1d2 or something similar, and limit the enhancement to +4. You could even incorporate a formula so that the total of the three enchantments must be below a certain 'power' value. The player gets to customize their gear and the economy has an extra avenue for growth; monster loot and player crafted.

essentially this is what was done, but then you have disagreements on what should be allowed to go with other things and the actual max limit to certain values - then other decisions not directly related hinder it as well