Shield Line of Feats Questions

[AlfarinIcebreaker]

So I've come to the finishing line with my Barbarian, with the final opportunity to bend the build in one or other direction.

He was originally planned as a 2h warrior, and he does quite well. But, I have some feats to spare, which were originally planned to be invested into Great Strengths in order to maximize damage and attacking potential.

But since he has all the Charge feats (through Battlerager) I was mulling over the idea to turn him into shield Charger, to replace 3 Great Strengths into Shield Bash, Shield Charge and Shield Slam.

What I am looking for is general insight from players with IG experience in the feat line. To be more precise :

1. How do you deal with damage reduction from monsters? My current playstyle relatively easily plows through various DR of higher end monsters (such as Pit Fiend, for instance). I fear if I go sword and board that my damage will not suffice.

2. Do the feats work correctly? Anything to look out for?

3. How do you feel about the feats in general, are they worth it, from mechanical standpoint? Talking about 3 feats there.

4. Do you think that Improved Knockdown is an overkill in addition to shield feats? Since you also have Shield Charge and Slam as means of incapacitating the opponent?

5. Agile Shield Fighter and Two Handed Fighting - can someone explain to me the difference, from what I understand they both work in the same way, reducing the AB penalty by -2 while Shield Bash is active?

Thanks.

[Theodore01]

1. No experience here.
On a Barb with PA/IPA, his strength and an extra damage shield it should be enough i guess.
Would take it only with Standard Rage, as you get -2 AC penalty while using a shield while under the effects of a Whirlwind Frenzy.

2. Yes, read https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Shield_Bash

3. Shield Slam is a good feat (and it allows for sneak attack).

4. IKD and Shield Charge use the same cooldown, so SSlam adds another chance to disable.

5.

Shield Bash can get up to 3 attacks per round:

Improved Two-Weapon Fighting will give 2 attacks/round
Greater Two-Weapon Fighting will give 3 attacks/round
Agile Shield Fighter + any 1 Shield Weapon (focus or specialization) feat will give 2 attacks/round
Agile Shield Fighter + any 2 Shield Weapon (focus or specialization) feats will give 3 attacks/round.

The feat needed for the 2nd or 3rd attack is actually a Shield Weapon Specialization (that one that gives +2 dmg with that shield). Only Shield Specialization (that one that gives +1 AC with Shield) doesnt give a 2nd or 3rd attack, although it´s a prequisite to be able to pick Agile Shield Fighter.

[AlfarinIcebreaker]

Thanks for the input. Too bad that the extra attacks are tied to feats, this way I would only get 1 additional bash attack. Not sure if it's worth it for practically Shield Slam alone.

Another question, the AB penalty to hit while using Heavy Shield, for instance, without Agile Shield Fighter NOR Two Weapon Fighting. AB penalty is only for Shield Bash attack or it also affects main hand attacks (much like when equipping tower shield)?

[Sun Wukong]

1. How do you deal with damage reduction from monsters? My current playstyle relatively easily plows through various DR of higher end monsters (such as Pit Fiend, for instance). I fear if I go sword and board that my damage will not suffice.

If you have a very high strength modifier, the one 'handed /// two handed' damage difference is not that notable. For example, if you make use of standard Improved Power Attack: 'STR MOD + 6 /// STR MOD*1.5 + 12' - with Enchanced Improved Power Attack it is 'STR MOD + 10 /// STR MOD*1.5 + 20' - thus usually the difference here is just about 11-20 points of damage depending on your strength modifier. It is even less if you use Northlander Hewing.

2. Do the feats work correctly? Anything to look out for?

I do not know if the bug has been fixed, but if you logged out and back in few months ago, then Shield Bash stopped until next server reset.

3. How do you feel about the feats in general, are they worth it, from mechanical standpoint? Talking about 3 feats there.

Shield Slam is basically additional Improved Knockdown. I once had a Rogue 16/Fighter 14 with high strength, and I kept knocking and slamming my opponents until they died one by one. An enemy that cannot really get any attacks done at you is a dead enemey.

4. Do you think that Improved Knockdown is an overkill in addition to shield feats? Since you also have Shield Charge and Slam as means of incapacitating the opponent?

I would actually have both Improved Knockdown and Shield Slam if I have the feats to spare. If one doesn't work, you can always try the other. And if both work... Well, it is a bad day for your opponent. Many Strength based Paladins (Cavalier Kit) make great use of Shield Slam. Paladins get +8 strength from their spells, Barbarians get +10 with Epic Rage and additional +2 from an item.

5. Agile Shield Fighter and Two Handed Fighting - can someone explain to me the difference, from what I understand they both work in the same way, reducing the AB penalty by -2 while Shield Bash is active?

'Agile Shield Fighter' path takes more feats but requires less dexterity than the 'Two-weapon Fighting' path to get all three attacks per round.

[Sun Wukong]

Thanks for the input. Too bad that the extra attacks are tied to feats, this way I would only get 1 additional bash attack. Not sure if it's worth it for practically Shield Slam alone.

Shield Slam is good on its own.

Another question, the AB penalty to hit while using Heavy Shield, for instance, without Agile Shield Fighter NOR Two Weapon Fighting. AB penalty is only for Shield Bash attack or it also affects main hand attacks (much like when equipping tower shield)?

Yeah, it gives -2 AB to everything.

Oh... as for Shield Bash damage... many years ago it used to ignore DR. I am not sure if it still the case... I have not tested it against anything with high enough DR... But it might be best to turn off Shield Bash against undead who ought to be immune to Shield Slam.

[Theodore01]

And there are weapons and bracers with the TWF feat out there.

As is a heavy tower shield +4ac with shield bash.

[Sun Wukong]

Doesn't that shield have only +3 AC though?

[AlfarinIcebreaker]

If you have a very high strength modifier, the one 'handed /// two handed' damage difference is not that notable. For example, if you make use of standard Improved Power Attack: 'STR MOD + 6 /// STR MOD*1.5 + 12' - with Enchanced Improved Power Attack it is 'STR MOD + 10 /// STR MOD*1.5 + 20' - thus usually the difference here is just about 11-20 points of damage depending on your strength modifier. It is even less if you use Northlander Hewing.

Well, that's still about 30-40% of damage decrease. Pretty big in my book, if you ask me, also when you consider the additional feat investment and the fact that you can easily obtain a Brooch of Shielding to level the AC difference between the two playstyles.

[Sun Wukong]

Thus you might be happier with more strength.