Akroma's Class Review

Gameplay Mechanics Explained and Helpful Advice on Technical Issues

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Invoker
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Re: Akroma's Class Review

Unread post by Invoker »

KOPOJIbPAKOB wrote:
Invoker wrote:how easy it is to shut an archer down.
Not an archer, but an archer with HipS. Agility based sneak characters with proper gear usually reach 50-60 Hide and MS scores, some have 70+, which turns them nearly invulnerable against an overwhelming majority of characters. And since this is a range character, things like trading blows after sneak attacks delievered and storm of vengeance don't work either. And yes, manyshot + death attack bug.
50-60 is very low. You can spot 50 hide/ms with maxed spot/listen and basically no gear.

70+ is a tad more reliable, but true reliability comes in the 80ies, and that requires an extremely serious investment, so much so that proper spotters will destroy you.

The best performing characters with HiPS are those who take advantage of it, but do not overcommit to it. NONE of them are "nearly invulnerable" to anything: you can't target them. That doesn't mean you can't kill them.

Storm of Vengeance isn't the spell I have in mind: forcing reflex saves on a high reflexes' class with Evasion is rather stupid, to be fair. Any competent Cleric will place a Wall of Dispel Magic under the HiPSer's ass, so your UMD is suddenly gone. Then, literally any spell, even a simple Quickened Hammer of the Gods (say, ground-targeted Implosion, ground-targeted Word of Faith...whatever) will disable or kill them. And that's Clerics. Druids and Spirit Shamans have an extremely easy time spotting them and killing them (Creeping Doom is lights out already), not to mention Wizards and Sorcerers.

Pardon me, but my Wizards beat the living crap out of too many assassins to corroborate your conclusions.
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AlfarinIcebreaker
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Re: Akroma's Class Review

Unread post by AlfarinIcebreaker »

Not to mention Storm Avatar. Instant win button against Archers.
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Invoker
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Re: Akroma's Class Review

Unread post by Invoker »

AlfarinIcebreaker wrote:Not to mention Storm Avatar. Instant win button against Archers.
Absolutely. That's indeed one of the biggest reasons I wrote the following:
Invoker wrote:I can't imagine assassin being overpowered in any shape or form .... (on the following grounds: how easy it is to shut an archer down,
This twisted culture got you feeding from its hand
But you will lose that food if you don't meet all their demands
And loyal is the soldier that gets slaughtered with the lambs
Examining the blueprints got you questioning the plans
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Valefort
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Re: Akroma's Class Review

Unread post by Valefort »

Several caveats, storm avatar grants a huge physical DR against ranged attacks but it does not deflect thus you can still be paralyzed. All it takes is rolling a 1 if you are not protected against death attack (mind blank doing the trick).

Secondly not everyone can cast Storm's avatar and the ones who can cast it through UMD can be dispelled by UMD dispels (greater dispel clickies for examples or a Mord scroll, might also strip you from your mind blank/protection from alignment). Keeping in mind storm avatar scrolls are not available in any shop there is no surefire way to shut down an ranged assassin for everyone.

Thirdly storm avatar on a scroll does not last overly long, sometimes not long enough to detect the elusive assassin and turn him to goo, however it does give you the time to flee.
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chad878262
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Re: Akroma's Class Review

Unread post by chad878262 »

Like with anything, perception is not reality... Assassin is a very good PRC (one of my favorites, a lot of fun to play), but they by no means are OP. Stealth is an odd mechanic that tends to elicit strong response on both sides of the argument. Simply put, the way it is balanced right now is as good as it is going to get (IMO). Basically, if a player fully invests in to being a sneak (all the feats, max DEX, max skill points, all gear aimed toward more stealth) then there are very few that will detect him. This is the right way to handle it (again IMO) because if the player has sacrificed mechanical power, losing feats like Blinding Strike in order to spend three feats on Stealthy/SF: Hide/SF: Move Silently while still getting PTWF they deserve to have the ability to hide their character from the majority of players.

Now, on the other side, those players that have decent WIS, play classes like Druid, Ranger or Bard and have max equipment dedicated to detection are going to locate every sneak, every time (the sneak has zero chance of success, even if maxed). So yes, there are maybe half a dozen sneaks on the server so built with dedication towards stealth that most players will never spot them...the rest can be spotted if you max spot or listen and either have decent WIS and take feats (Alertness/SF) OR spend the gold to have max gear dedicated to Spot. You don't need to do both because even if a dedicated sneak hits 99 Hide/MS you only need 80 spot OR listen to detect them (~89 to detect them reliably). 33 skill + 36 (9 gear slots * 4) = 69. Throw on Amplify or C&C, Greater Heroism and a scroll of Owl's Insight and your in the mid to high 80's with no feats or WIS bonus. Now, is it easy to fill 9 gear slots with +4 spot or listen items? No, but it's no more difficult than trying to fill those slots with sneak gear. Is +4 items available in every slot? No, but they aren't available for every slot with stealth either.

As to the Assassin Archer, specifically... Well, as was noted there are ways to defeat them even if you can't spot them, so I honestly don't understand what the issue is.
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Akroma666
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Re: Akroma's Class Review

Unread post by Akroma666 »

Sorry those of you enjoying these, I've been incredibly busy with work lately. I'll get back to in hopefully in 2 weeks, but I'm getting married first week of June.. just a lot going on IRL.
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Re: Akroma's Class Review

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Oh, well, congrats on getting married. :D
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Akroma666
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Re: Akroma's Class Review

Unread post by Akroma666 »

Dervish

Class Description
“ Wild, exotic, and as dangerous as her whirling blades, the dervish epitomizes speed, quickness, and abandon. Her motions appear to be as random as they are graceful, but the steps of her lethal dance play out according to their own rhythm.
Nearly all dervishes belong to nomadic cultures. These nomads are not simple wanderers with no roots to call their own - they have their ancient traditions, and their societies simply do not consider permanent settlements an important part of their nature. They are gypsies, keeping their own traditions and forging their own familial and societal bonds while they move throughout the world. Often, these tribes adopt the attitudes and even some of the laws of the lands they live in - for the sake of expedience, if nothing else. The dervish treats fighting styles the same way. A dervish learns the dance of war as she grows up among her family and her tribe. She watches others as she travels, however, and brings new steps to the dance as she goes.
Fighters, rangers, and monks often take up the role of the dervish. Many paladins look at the wildness of the dance and assume it has some roots in chaos, but those who look past the seeming randomness can find things to learn. Barbarians seldom choose to learn the ways of the dance - the dervish depends on subtlety more than brute force. The way of the dervish has been known to appeal to some druids, bards, and even sorcerers - those who wish to learn a type of fighting that does not rely on heavy arms or armor find the class interesting.”
– Wiki

The perfect mix of agility, accuracy, and art. Dervish truly tries to blend dance with death by leveraging the perform skill to gain boosts to attack and damage roles in addition to getting some dodge AC bonus and speed based feats.

Where it shines :D
The class offers a nice mix of that art and fight similar to a bard by making use of the perform skill. While perform normally mechanically does nothing beyond RP (unless bard), this class uses it for fuel to make the dance last longer. The dance acts like Rage in which it has a duration that provides damage and attack bonuses, but at the end you are “winded” or in this case “fatigued” for 1 minute. Dance cap is 2 minutes, so don’t get more than 24 ranks in perform. Using the ability with two 1-Handed slashing weapons makes this class deadly fun as they both can receive the bonus. Comboing with a strength Tempest build, now you have Drizzt abominations popping up all over. The AC bonus is another big boon, an extra 3 free AC combined with spring attack and all the movement speed buffs is quite nice. Fast movement addition is great! A Thousand Cuts… Not sure where to put this one.. While its nice BG has upped the use’s to 3/day, it feel the ability itself is somewhat situational. Its great for those boss fights that require an extra umph.. if that’s the intended use, great.. leave it alone.

Pain Points :cry:
Where to begin… so much potential that falls short.. The dance cap.. WHY?! If rage can get boosted with extended rage, Constitution, and get more uses per day with items.. why on earth cap this at 2 minutes. I understand the fear of getting a bard in there with 60 perform and having the dance last 5 minutes.. but who honestly cares!? They would need to invest feats and class levels to make it worth wild. Ditch the cap! If the intended use for A Thousand Cuts is anything else than above, I would suggest reworking the ability. I would love to see this on a timer similar to the new Orc War Drummer where it lasts a minute, but you can’t use it again for say 5 minutes with unlimited uses a day. That or make it tie into the dance, so when you are dancing, you gain an additional +1dX slashing damage.

Pros
• Dance +Hit/Damage
• Lots of speed buffs
• AC bonus!
• Perform/Martial hybrid
• A Thousand Cuts: Very Situational

Cons
• Dance cap at 2 minutes
• Dance Fatigue till class level 9, plan ahead
• A Thousand Cuts: Very Situational

Final Thoughts
The worst part about the Dervish is dance capping at 2 minutes. Honestly I have no idea why it would have a cap.. its good, but its no different than a rage timer other than this one is skill based and only affects attack and damage. It basically says don’t get more than 24 ranks in perform.. I could see this ability being MUCH better if it had no cap and could go for 4+ minutes. That alone would give the class an extra star. I wish more classes ran like the War Drummer with a timer instead of a use/day, but this is what you get with a lot of DND mechanics. I just feel they don’t translate well to video games and A Thousand Cuts is a great example. Thanks BG for giving us an extra 2 minutes of blades of furry, but it would be great if this was on a timer. All in all, the class has lots of fun little tricks, just needs some TLC and development IMO. I struggled to rate this one.. but honestly it came down to the movement speed buffs. The extra speed boosts gave it that last half a star.

Rating: 3.5/5

Special Thanks
Wiki for information and Kaedrin for class creation
Storm - The Blade Flurry
Druegar Grizzleclaw - The Mountain Ruin Tsar
Akroma Thuul - The Creepy Enchanter
Liliana Duskblade - The B*tch of Bane
Jamie Dawnbringer - The Light in the Darkness
chad878262
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Re: Akroma's Class Review

Unread post by chad878262 »

Nice review Akroma,

I would like to comment on the Dance cap, even though this has been around since before I was in QC I can see why it's there.

Comparing it to Barbarian Rage is where the issue starts, you can't do it. Better to compare it to Frenzied Berserker as they are both PRCs with 10 levels. The reason you want to limit the dance is, when not dancing a dervish is still part of a strong building option. Taking your example of building with Tempest you could do something like F12/D10/T5/BG3 and have a GTWF EDM build with bonuses to AB, AC and damageall over the place. Making the dance uncapped with all of the available gear on this server could end up with Perform ~50 or 60 even without Bard levels. Ensuring the Dervish Dance lasts only 2 minutes means you can only dance for about half the time between rests, which seems enough IMO.

As to the thousand cuts it's basically an extra ~7 damage to your attacks for 30 seconds, 3 per day. If you compare this with Divine Wrath from Divine Champion (which we switched from 1/day to a 5 minute cooldown) the duration is 1/2 your DC levels + CHA modifier capped at 10 and grants DR 5/- and +5 damage (at DC 10). So I could see it getting a cooldown instead of 3/day, but considering Divine Wrath was 1/day having a cooldown instead was a bump... Changing 1,000 cuts to a timer would in some ways be a nerf... Right now you can use 2 or 3 times in a row to keep dishing out that +2d6 damage, whereas on a 5 minute timer you might get 1 or 2 more uses between rests than you do today, but if you want to use it for 1 1/2 minutes straight you're out of luck.

As I said, a nice review. Just wanted to give some feedback on what seem to be the two biggest sticking points.
Chord Silverstrings - Bard and OSR Squire / Tarent Nefzen - Arcane Wand Merchant and Master Alchemist / Irrace Arkentlar - Drow Adventurer / Finneaus Du'Veil - Gem Merchant and Executive Officer of SCCE

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