Dwarven Barbarian

[Flint]

So I was looking for some advice on building a dwarven Barbarian. My initial plan was Barb20/Battle Rager 5/ FB 5. I was going to go for epic rage and Epic Dr.

My feats would be LoH, Able learner, PA, Cleave, blindfight, Steadfast determination, Ice troll berserker, and either IPA or Northland Hewer.

Epic feats, Epic prowess, Expose Weakness, Epic Dr 3, and epic rage.

My Str score would start at 18 and end at 22 or 23. Con would end at 21.

I would have using Standard rage, so with IPA and rage my AB would only be 41 or 42.

My attack bonus and damage just don't seem high enough even though my survivability seems high.

I was also looking at Barb/AK and Barb/Battle Rager/fighter. I just can't seem to make up my mind and I wanted to get some peoples opinions. Thanks!

[aaron22]

ok first thing....

its not an orc, so you are already way behind...

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even with that out of the way, you can still make something salvageable from it..

epic dr for 3DR to make 8 is not worth an epic feat. you can get 10 from a stockpile of boots or roots if you want. if you go DR3,6 and 9 then i can see it. personally i would take the healing feats over the DR because 2 regen is better than 3 DR.

EW is only gonna be good if you plan to be in light armor. so that should be considered in your build. the evasion feat is beauty no matter is you take EW or not.

your build will prolly do best with IPA over NH with the enhanced from FB.

i would not take BR in the build at all. i just dont care for what you get compared to what you can get elsewhere. DC or WoD/AK for instance. if its for RP then cool. keep it.

get the base str and con to even numbers for raging.

your ab will be ok if you are in light and EW. can pop some pots if needed to bring it a bit higher.

[Flint]

I really like the idea of a battle rager but I'm not sure I can justify the 5 levels. I think it would be very fun to RP, but I will probably end up soloing at least half of the time.
I did mean all 3 epic DR feats. I will have 6 epic feats because my 20th level Barb is in epics.
I guess a follow up question would be is cleave and great cleave viable in higher levels? Also the charge feats that you get for free with BR seem useful. My AC would be 43 standing, 47 in rage without any buffs or shield. My orginal idea was to use a shield. But my damage just seems too low.

[chad878262]

So I was looking for some advice on building a dwarven Barbarian. My initial plan was Barb20/Battle Rager 5/ FB 5. I was going to go for epic rage and Epic Dr.

My feats would be LoH, Able learner, PA, Cleave, blindfight, Steadfast determination, Ice troll berserker, and either IPA or Northland Hewer.

Epic feats, Epic prowess, Expose Weakness, Epic Dr 3, and epic rage.

My Str score would start at 18 and end at 22 or 23. Con would end at 21.

I would have using Standard rage, so with IPA and rage my AB would only be 41 or 42.

My attack bonus and damage just don't seem high enough even though my survivability seems high.

I was also looking at Barb/AK and Barb/Battle Rager/fighter. I just can't seem to make up my mind and I wanted to get some peoples opinions. Thanks!

Example build: http://nwn2db.com/build/?291623

I would say it will do just fine. 41 AB is a BIT low, but with Expose Weakness it's more like ~44 AB after you land it. AC and Damage wise you're also good to go. Carry around a Medium shield and some shield potions just in case and you can plop the shield on when you need extra AC and leave it off for higher damage.

its not an orc, so you are already way behind...

Only someone from Michigan would think Orcs are the only cool Barbarians... Whole football team is orcs.

epic dr for 3DR to make 8 is not worth an epic feat. you can get 10 from a stockpile of boots or roots if you want. if you go DR3,6 and 9 then i can see it. personally i would take the healing feats over the DR because 2 regen is better than 3 DR.

I have to disagree here. In most cases DR is better. You can be hit multiple times per round making DR better from a damage/healing total. Over time regen can heal more, but heal kits are cheap so for my epic feats, I will take the extra DR.

EW is only gonna be good if you plan to be in light armor. so that should be considered in your build. the evasion feat is beauty no matter is you take EW or not.

Mithril Chainmail it is... With your attack bonus you need expose weakness.

your build will prolly do best with IPA over NH with the enhanced from FB.

I agree with this.

i would not take BR in the build at all. i just dont care for what you get compared to what you can get elsewhere. DC or WoD/AK for instance. if its for RP then cool. keep it.

Purely from a Power Building perspective I tend to agree. B21/AK4/FB5 would be superior as would B20/AK10 (substitute WoD as you will). There is also the B22/F8 or B20/DC10 route which gets good mileage and the fighter would help with the AB issues with Epic Weapon Focus. However, there is nothing wrong with Battle Rager so if that's what you want I say GO FOR IT! You'll enjoy your character more if it is YOURS, not a clone of 20 other players builds.

get the base str and con to even numbers for raging.

I also agree with this, but it is rather difficult to accomplish. You could lose DR 3/- for a Great CON to end both at 22 and it might be a worthwhile consideration....One more round of Rage and 30 more HP at the loss of 3 DR. I would consider it, certainly.

your ab will be ok if you are in light and EW. can pop some pots if needed to bring it a bit higher.

Potions of Heroism are relatively cheap for +2 AB with a relatively long duration (50 mins). Sure they are easily dispelled, but also easy to reapply. Potions of Bless and Aid can also give a quick and easy +1 (each), but will only last 2-3 minutes. Either way you have options so would not worry overmuch about 41 AB. Also remember you can use PA instead of IPA when necessary to jump your AB to 44 or turn off all together for 47. A good strategy in some areas would be to leave it off until you land Expose Weakness and then turn on PA. If everything hits turn on IPA... Experiment and go with what works.

[chad878262]

I really like the idea of a battle rager but I'm not sure I can justify the 5 levels. I think it would be very fun to RP, but I will probably end up soloing at least half of the time.
I did mean all 3 epic DR feats. I will have 6 epic feats because my 20th level Barb is in epics.
I guess a follow up question would be is cleave and great cleave viable in higher levels? Also the charge feats that you get for free with BR seem useful. My AC would be 43 standing, 47 in rage without any buffs or shield. My orginal idea was to use a shield. But my damage just seems too low.

I doubt you can fit Epic Prowess, Expose Weakness, Epic Rage AND all three Epic DR feats in while getting even STR and CON (or at least even STR).

Cleave/Great Cleave are less useful at higher levels, but they also are not useless as some claim. You get 6 APR (7 with Haste) and it is not out of the question to drop more than one enemy per round (especially when you are not using a shield), thus it's possible to trigger two cleaves per round. However, with the inflated HP on this server it's highly unlikely and great cleave is generally not recommended unless you need it to qualify for a PRC. Frenzied Berzerker is helping your damage so I would say in this case it is a good idea.

Charge can be useful for that first round spike damage, just takes a bit of practice to get the timing right.

I think you should do as I stated previously. Carry around a Medium Shield and shield pots (until you obtain a +4 shield) and use it (or not) based on the situation.

[aaron22]

Only someone from Michigan would think Orcs are the only cool Barbarians... Whole football team is orcs.

thanks... but they would have to be super orcs with min INT score of 14... because unlike "the team down south", you gotta be able to do more than just be able to write your name with a stick in the dirt to get in to UM.

I have to disagree here. In most cases DR is better. You can be hit multiple times per round making DR better from a damage/healing total. Over time regen can heal more, but heal kits are cheap so for my epic feats, I will take the extra DR.

this is more in looking at the whole build. to get your DR to 8 is not worth an Epic Feat (to me). you qual for FH so that will serve better. stone roots and gargoyle boots are plentiful enough to have a DR of 10 and reapply. so a DR of 10 and FH2 is better than a DR of 8.

[chad878262]

thanks... but they would have to be super orcs with min INT score of 14... because unlike "the team down south", you gotta be able to do more than just be able to write your name with a stick in the dirt to get in to UM.

Only a Michigan fan would compare academics... That's what happens when you lose 16 out of the last 20 meetings on the football field. (American Football, not that futbol stuff the rest of the worlds talking about. ) Having grown up when the situation was reversed, I understand your frustration bud.

this is more in looking at the whole build. to get your DR to 8 is not worth an Epic Feat (to me). you qual for FH so that will serve better. stone roots and gargoyle boots are plentiful enough to have a DR of 10 and reapply. so a DR of 10 and FH2 is better than a DR of 8.

Good point. I was able to fit 2 Epic DR's in which brought it to 11 always on DR. Since Standard Rage grants 2 regen and you can wear a cloak I figured that was the better route to take in this case. Stoneskin is an option, but only absorbs 7 hits before it's gone so it can get expensive.

[Flint]

Thanks for the input guys! I was looking on the builder and I can get full 30 tumble, 15 spell craft and 16 (14 after CHA). So my final stats would be
Str: 22
Dex: 14
Con: 22
Int: 8
Wis: 8
Cha: 6
DR of 11
AB 40 - 30 Bab, 6 str, 5 rage, 4 EB, 1 epic prowess, -6 IPA
AC of 44 if I can ever manage to get a +4 dex item and 48 in rage THF.
Saves before items or rage. Rage adds 10 to will save. Also have a lot of bonus against mind affecting. Also not sure if the builder factors in spell craft bonus.
Fort 28
Rex 11
Will 16

[chad878262]

Note that you can wear a Ring of Might for +2 STR/CON which will stack with Epic rage to hit the +12 cap. Thus your STR and CON would be 24, 34 while raging making your bonus +7, +12 during rage for STR.

Edit: Also, you can buy a +4 DEX Bracers if you find the right merchant (hint, look for the elves), but it does cost significant gold...Luckily there are LOADS of merchant negotiator PC's who will buy those bracers for you with their ~77 appraise skill and then sell them to you for a tidy profit. Win/win since you get them cheaper than you could otherwise while the other PC gets to make a bit of gold for making the trip to pick them up.

[Rudolph]

EW is only gonna be good if you plan to be in light armor. so that should be considered in your build.

Really? Why? Has there been a recent change? Unlike Evasion, EW worked in Medium and Heavy Armor last I played and it gives the same benefits independently of armor type, right?

Anyway, the following is my light armor Battlerager build. It is designed to get the most out of that class and the Charge feats, hence the Whirlwind Rage (for more Charge Attacks). The solid AC should make up for the low DR/Regen somewhat. Furious Charger, EW, and IKD all help with AB.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?271751

[chad878262]

Only evasion doesn't work in medium or heavy armor... still a good reason to go mithril chainmail IMO. 1ac to access evasion is a win every day.

[Flint]

EW is only gonna be good if you plan to be in light armor. so that should be considered in your build.

Really? Why? Has there been a recent change? Unlike Evasion, EW worked in Medium and Heavy Armor last I played and it gives the same benefits independently of armor type, right?

Anyway, the following is my light armor Battlerager build. It is designed to get the most out of that class and the Charge feats, hence the Whirlwind Rage (for more Charge Attacks). The solid AC should make up for the low DR/Regen somewhat. Furious Charger, EW, and IKD all help with AB.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?271751

How is your rage time with this build? This is pretty similar to what I was thinking if I didn't go for epic DR. Although I would probably stay with regular rage.

Edit: also what is a good enough will save? My plan leaves me at 21 vs spells with +4 from items and then +10 from rage. And +4 vs mind effecting.

[Rudolph]

How is your rage time with this build?

20 rounds as is. 24 with regular rage. A hard choice between the two, I think. +5 AC are useful and with Evasion, the Whirlwind Rage Reflex bonus is quite nice, I think, plus there are wands that protect against mind-affecting spells. Then again there are Haste items and companion casters that might add an attack to regular rage (the extra attack doesn't stack with Whirlwind) and the Will save will look much better with that one... I'd make it an RP choice.