Dragon Disciple melee builds

[Deathgrowl]

Hey, so just out of curiosity, I've been tinkering a bit with dragon disciple10, looking what kind of melee builds you can make with it. The first and obvious thing that came to mind was sorcerer6/dragonslayer4/eldrich knight10/dragon disciple10, and it seems fine in theory.

Any suggestions to other splits? Maybe even less gish and go for lowish CL? How about blackguard or paladin dips for EDM?

[aaron22]

Dragon disciple build with cleric blackguard or pali dip is gonna be under cl30 because of the spell progression of disciple 7\10 and 3b20. So that is a given.

If thinking melee, then I would instead think str bard all the way. All your normal str bard builds. I personally would not want edm and just pump str to get back that AB. So maybe a fighter dip for WS.

With the low HP though, evasion would be desirable and EW could help you hit with a rogue dip.

[chad878262]

I consider Dragon Disciple melee builds as an alternative to melee Pale Master. Just make sure you hit 21 BAB and understand there are going to be some limitations.

S6/EK10/DD10 is obviously going to be the base, meaning with Practiced Caster you start at CL30. CL26 is perfectly fine which would mean Adding BG4 for EDM and Divine Shield is acceptable. BAB is 22 so you coul even go S7/EK10/DD10/BG3, dropping Divine Shield and still hitting BAB21 while making CL27.

Going Cleric might be a better choice even though you would have to go C4 to hit BAB21. This would allow you to use scrolls of Divine Power for a nice boost when needed. They last long enough to be worthwhile and you save yourself some skill points and a feat (Hide / Cleave) required for Blackguard.

Another option that might not have the same oomph as EDM, but grants some pretty strong defensive consideration is (of course) Anointed Knight/Warrior of Darkness. All skills are class skills and only requires Iron Will feat. Meanwhile you get Toughness for free (opening up Steadfast) as well as Tower Shields, Heal and Tumble. Do note that you will still have to take Martial Weapon Proficiency even though AK/WoD grants it free. Because you need +5 BAB to qualify and you are only taking 6 Sorc levels, you need to take your first PRC at 7, which will have to be EK since you do not qualify yet for DD or AK/WoD.

For a less caster oriented option... you could go the BladeSinger route. Something like S6/F4/DD10/BS10 would have BAB 22 and CL23. You could of course try to go the Cleric or Blackguard (DeathSinger) route, but BladeSinger is a feat heavy PRC for a Sorcerer. You'd want to equip as a Fighter in case of dispels, but could make good use of Song of Celerity.

[aaron22]

Its cleric dipping

[Rudolph]

I was playing around with the class with an eye on pure melee power, too, and came up with the following one. Reallly low CL, though...
http://nwn2db.com/build/?275989

[wurdpass]

Dragon Slayer and Dragon Disciple aren't allowed to be mixed.

If thinking bard, a Str Bard will obviously kick butt.
Str focused, feinting Bard 9 / IBlade 5 / Daggerspell 6 / DD 10 will be maybe less strong than strength bard 20 / 10 DD but could put in some work.

If you want to go sorceror and hit people without shapeshift, tough to get good AB and full CL because RDD is designed to prevent this.

I am thinking Deathsinger / RDD like above, but less ambitious to get EDM. Taking Blood Magus and get BAB betw 17 and 20 and CL betw. 28 and 30 CL -- or -- Eldricht Knight and BAB 22, CL 26.
Sorc 10 / Deathsinger 7 / SD 3 / DD 10 is barely feasible thanks to crazy drow ability spread. AB ~19 CL only 24/25 but HiPS obviously improves to hit and harder to dispel. If you want Weapon Finesse and/or Able Learner you have to give up some epic feats

Others are
Sorc 7 / Bard 3 / Stormsinger / RDD BAB ~21, CL 28
Plainer Sorc / EK / RDD with whatever extra, perhaps ASoC for Meta or Bloodmage 4 for 31 CL BAB 20. Taking Deathsinger to 10 is worth a fair amount of AC, however, if not shapeshifting.
Sorc 7 / BG 4 / Bloodmage 9 / DD 10

Shapeshifting with Augment Form boosts your BAB significantly.
You can use that with the Sorc / 10 EK / RDD for transmuted AB of ~25? Bloodmage 4 again gets CL 31.
Or EK 5/ 9 Bloodmage / 10 RDD to get Fast Healing feats to heal under shapeshift, transmuted AB of ~22, CL 31.

[chad878262]

If going Bard I would think your best bet would be B16/BG4/DD10. BAB 21, you get max benefit out of curse song along with EDM/Divine Shield, possibly even qualifying for Divine Shield faster thanks to DD stat bumps. CL 27 is serviceable and should hold up pretty well against Greater Dispels. I have a CL28 STR bard and he rarely loses more than one or two buffs to Gr. Dispel.

[Sun Wukong]

I would go for a polymotphin Sorcerer 8/Cleric 3/Blood Magus 9/Dragon Disciple 10 with Fast Healing II or III with Divine Shield and/or Might that Polymorphs into a Dragon, and has the Dragon Knight Epic spell!

As for Dragon Disciple builds that make use of Shapechange... I think that a Sorcerer 8/Cleric 3/Blood Magus 9/Dragon Disciple 10 could be very well be the nastiest one. Caster level of 30 with Blood Magic, BAB of 21 with Augment Form, Divine Shield and Might to add charisma modifier to damage and AC, and Fast Healing III to increase your tankiness even further.

You just need to go for Sorcerer 6/Cleric 3/Dragon Disciple 3/Blood Magus 8 pre-epic, then you just get the the remaining Blood Magus and Dragon Disciple levels, and leave the two last sorcerer levels last. Thus at level 21 you get +2 Constitution from Blood Magus Infusion, and at level 24 you get another +2 Constitution from Dragon Disciple, which can let you grab Fast Healing I, II, and III at levels 25, 27, and 29.

A human could start out with 13 STR, 8 DEX, 17 CON, 12 INT, 8 WIS, and 16 CHA. You just increase constitution by two, then charisma by five. Grab a Great Charisma feat and cast Eagle's Splendour on yourself for +4 charisma. Dragon Apotheoisis grants another +2 to Charisma.

Thus your level 30 ability scores would sit at: 15 STR, 8 DEX, 23 CON, 14 INT, 8 WIS, and 28 CHA (buffed up). STR, DEX, and CON do not matter that much as you can just make use of the Dragon Shape.

List of feats taken, Cleric Domains are not included:

• Level 1: Spell Focus Transmutation, Augment Form
  Level 3: Toughness
  Level 6: Steafast Determination
  Level 9: Practised Spellcaster (Sorcerer)
  Level 12: Power Attack
  Level 15: Divine Might
  Level 18: Divine Shield
  Level 21: Extend Spell
  Level 23: Great Charisma I
  Level 25: Fast Healing I
  Level 27: Fast Healing II
  Level 29: Fast Healing III

Alignment restriction: Chaotic Good or Chaotic Evil.

As a Cleric, you could get Toughness feat through Earth domain. Other good domains would be Water for Evasion, Undeath for Extra Turning, Luck for Luck of Heroes, or Chaos for Slippery Mind. I have not gone for deity shopping, so I am not sure which of the above domains a Chaotic Good or Chaotic Evil character could get...

But yeah, I think that the above build would be the nastiest Shapechange based Dragon Disciple. You can prove me wrong.

[Deathgrowl]

Focusing on Shapechange kind of makes Dragon Disciple redundant, though, as none of the benefits really transfer.

[wurdpass]

Focusing on Shapechange kind of makes Dragon Disciple redundant, though, as none of the benefits really transfer.

His build uses it to qualify for fast healing 6 while still having an OK Cha score. Being a fast healing dragon is pretty cool for a Disciple but I understand where youre coming from.

I feel that DD is a pretty well balanced class in that while it gives you the ability score boosts it makes it hard to use them

• Strength boost but low AB
• Con boost worth 30 HP on a caster
• Int boost but Cha based caster, skillpoints not applied retroactively
• Cha boost but 7/10 CL progression

So as a player you decide which of these ability scores you want to invest further in to get more utility from

Sun Wukongs build leverages the Con boost and Cha but not really the rest. Another Con build could hypothetically take Fist of the Forest and use that for AC

Another build could use Cha and Str to get EDM.

A Deathsinger build gets AC from Int and better uses the Str with the higher AB. EK or Stormsinger have a higher CL or more feats but gets less from the Intelligence.

And then finally a non melee Sorceror might only really care about getting a max Cha score and the rest is just gravy

[Sun Wukong]

Focusing on Shapechange kind of makes Dragon Disciple redundant, though, as none of the benefits really transfer.

It is more about the role-play flavor of it actually. You could play a Red Dragon Disciple that turns into a Red Dragon.

A half-dragon? I'LL SHOW YOU A HALF-DRAGON!

Edit:

Not to mention that Sorcerer (draconic blood line), Blood Magus (blood magic), and Dragon Disciple (focus on drawing out your draconic heritage) all kind of mix well together from role-playing perspective. As for cleric, well, a Cleric of Garagos does fit a Red Dragon Disciple in one way if not another rather well. But your RP-compatibility might not be that good if you pick a deity for the Earth domain. But there are different Chaotic Evil/Good Dragon varieties... So I think you can figure something out.