Profanity and swearing in RP

[Zanniej]

Well ... it's not possible

The forum has a profanity filter. For example, you can't say shit, shitty, (do-me), (hero), (hoo), (person), (fun person) or (germbag).

The best filter we once had was that you couldn't say Maecius ... that turned into Barney ... unfortunately someone in a position of power undid that...

[Sun Wukong]

I am no f***ing full-blood.

I do not know if your character has the ability scores... But:

Here I thought elves had keen senses. Have you chewed upon leaves that impaire eye sight? Has falling down from trees addled your mind? Because I do not think you would recognize an orc even if you were to kiss one for marriage vows.

[Arcane]

.

[Invoker]

so run along now, before my verbal ire grants you stained cheeks and trousers.

Wait...in which order? Cheeks first, or trousers?! Cause if it's the former, I got a mask, but if it's the latter...better go get me a spare...

[casadechrisso]

Well, my main (*points at pic*) can be a little foul-mouthed too, and even though she has the INT she prefers the simple insults - maybe because her player can't remember any Haddock quotes. So I'm using the slightly softened swear words like feck and shite and the like. Oh, and due to slang a lot of modern nasty words in a harmless context...

[DM Invictus]

At this stage there isn't going to be any change to the rules in regards to swearing, so long as you remember the golden rule.

RESPECT ONE ANOTHER

There will be no problems, the moment someone takes it from a in character insult to a player insult there will be massive consequences. Most people here are mature enough to handle a little profanity just don't take it over the top and everything will be cool.

[chad878262]

[Flasmix]

I'd just like to go ahead and point out that if swearing itself isn't allowed them substitute words shouldn't be either. I'll explain;

Many people here know the Drow word 'Vith'. It's a substitute for the f-word. If you call someone a 'vithing idiot' your mind will place the proper word in place. You're essentially still swearing and letting people know you are.

I'm personally in favor of letting people swear within reason over censorship. Keep in mind what pg-13 is. "Parents Strongly Cautioned: some material may be inappropriate for children under 13". I can personally see some swearing in that kind of rating because 13 year olds swear all the time.

Thus my final point is you can't ban one and openly advocate for ways to skirt the language police. Either swearing in all forms is allowed or swearing in no way is allowed. This is just my opinion and if it goes to the DMs is what I would advocate for.

[casadechrisso]

Hm, I do believe it matters, as does the context, IC or OOC and how much out of place a swear word would be in the setting.
Going back to Captain Haddock, Tintin comics have always been below the PG-13 rating and Haddock's swearwords are harmless, yet perfectly paint the opposite picture.

Also, I was pretty sure "Vith" actually means "Filth", have I and my google skills been so wrong? <- oh, sorry, that was my head not having enough coffee, Ilbith is filth...

[Winterborne]

I don't play a character that really would swear but I have no problem with people who do. Doesn't break immersion at all either for me. PG13 can and does include some pretty salty language, and T rated games do always have that "Online Interactions Not Rated By The ESRB" disclaimer.

My main important distinction is that people are not directing that stuff at a player ever. At the end of the day I guess I believe in the "Don't be a jerk" policy.

[metaquad4]

I'd just like to go ahead and point out that if swearing itself isn't allowed them substitute words shouldn't be either. I'll explain;

Many people here know the Drow word 'Vith'. It's a substitute for the f-word. If you call someone a 'vithing idiot' your mind will place the proper word in place. You're essentially still swearing and letting people know you are.

I'm personally in favor of letting people swear within reason over censorship. Keep in mind what pg-13 is. "Parents Strongly Cautioned: some material may be inappropriate for children under 13". I can personally see some swearing in that kind of rating because 13 year olds swear all the time.

Thus my final point is you can't ban one and openly advocate for ways to skirt the language police. Either swearing in all forms is allowed or swearing in no way is allowed. This is just my opinion and if it goes to the DMs is what I would advocate for.

And there in lies one of the issues with this kind of censorship. All you have to do is get around the language laws, and then you start anew. Substitute words form the same purpose without breaking the rules.

Most media uses "f**k" .This is allowed, both with PG-13, and Teen Ratings as mentioned above. PG-13 allows for "harder" stuff, I think mostly G ratings self-censor through this means. Or by having a character interrupted mid-speech, it serves the same purpose.

Certain settings, as with this one, can use made up substitution words. That is exactly their purpose, to put the word in the reader's head (that is what saying the word does) without breaking the rules. Just as you said above.

That is why such rules are very silly. They are going to be broken, and there is almost no way to enforce them. Even in our society, they are arbitrary and serve no real purpose (other than to give fundies something else to complain about). For some reason, this random set of words got special attention regardless of context.

[Of course, this wanes and waxes slightly (unless you hang around with hardcore social conservatives) the further you get away from elementary/middle/secondary school teachers.]

The main purpose the rules servers is, just in-case a 17 (lmao, they can drive, and join the military but they can't swearrrr) year old or below is playing. Our FR-specific words will do two things:
1) Protect their poor brains from the taint of being around adults.
2) If their parents see them playing, they won't tell them to get off ASAP
a) Of course, the little ones talking #2 on GTA V/CoD are special and get away with this all the time.
b) If any parent thinks they can stop a child from playing, they are fooling themselves. It is a punishment in name alone, unless the child is exceptionally obedient or exceptionally stupid.

---
Yes, this post oozed with contempt. There is nothing admirable about enforcing this kind of arbitrary censorship that has been forced on kids by people worthy of the Tea Party. All you do is propagate one small fault we still have yet to expunge from society.

But, that is the decision of the server. It is easily bypassed through "alternative words", so no worry. And that is perfectly tolerated and welcomed here. It's impossible to ban thoughts from sprouting in someone's head.

[Hoihe]

Although I am ambivalent,

I do have to note that I vividly recall being told by a 6-7 year old Hungarian kid, when I myself was 10 or 12, that he will insert a certain appendage unique to reproductively male mammals into my ears and do it in such a fashion that my head will explode.


By a 6-7, maybe 8 year old kid. He knew full well what he meant.

[metaquad4]

Although I am ambivalent,

I do have to note that I vividly recall being told by a 6-7 year old Hungarian kid, when I myself was 10 or 12, that he will insert a certain appendage unique to reproductively male mammals into my ears and do it in such a fashion that my head will explode.


By a 6-7, maybe 8 year old kid. He knew full well what he meant.

That too. Ultimately, its just a show kids put on for adults in their life, so that adults can feel good that they are "bringing 'em up right"!

Pretty sure most adults should know its BS. If they don't, then they are clueless.

And the kids certainly know its BS and don't really adhere to it when no-one is looking (nore should they).

It all seems rather pointless. Both sides know its meaningless. They just go through the motions.

This rule, the whole t-rating rule (hello. Private RP, tells, and skype/haven for your ERP needs exist) is rather pointless. We too are just going through the motions, without any particular purpose. The staff (should) know people break the rule all the time behind their back (in letter, between consenting players and in spirit using other mediums like chatting in skype while being in nwn2).

And the players who want to engage in ERP (lets be real here, torture and gruesome violence happens on the sever not in skype. The old judeo-christian way, violence is awesome but sex is taboo.) do it regardless.

Like with real life, its all a show for clueless parents who like to peep on their kids while they play, and its a show for new players as well. Its a marketing technique, and I do believe regardless of how silly it is, it does work. People do some in on the promise that "undesirable RP" is not permitted and many of them stay oblivious to its existence thanks to the rule making it all private.

Its a silly, stupid rule. But somehow, the illusion helps. And like this thread has pointed out, we can skirt around the language police rules (along with the other rules associated with a "T" vs "M" rating).

Nothing would change without the rule, imo. And with the rule, we can market to a few more people.

[casadechrisso]

I guess I agree with metaquad4... it's a rather silly show. Of course I wouldn't advocate for a major rule change, since I don't want players playing adult games on the fireplace benches, nor do I need any modern profanity that ruins my immersion, but then again, a certain level of mature roleplay is required for my personal immersion. And I honestly doubt I ever ran into a teen player since playing here, not that it matters because they probably know more dirty things than I do anyway. In any case, I usually assume every player here is at least of legal drinking age (as in, US drinking age, over here that would be 16), and I neither hold back with anything nor do I actually break the swearing rules, because it's simply not required.
Anyway, PG-13... I personally think it's silly and wouldn't mind forgetting about it. The level of violence in RP exceeds anything I'd consider PG-13 by far.

[metaquad4]

I guess I agree with metaquad4... it's a rather silly show. Of course I wouldn't advocate for a major rule change, since I don't want players playing adult games on the fireplace benches, nor do I need any modern profanity that ruins my immersion, but then again, a certain level of mature roleplay is required for my personal immersion. And I honestly doubt I ever ran into a teen player since playing here, not that it matters because they probably know more dirty things than I do anyway. In any case, I usually assume every player here is at least of legal drinking age (as in, US drinking age, over here that would be 16), and I neither hold back with anything nor do I actually break the swearing rules, because it's simply not required.
Anyway, PG-13... I personally think it's silly and wouldn't mind forgetting about it. The level of violence in RP exceeds anything I'd consider PG-13 by far.

I think that people get concerned that they'll suddenly start seeing ERP on the streets. That doesn't even happen in Haven, nore does it happen in Sigil or any of the past M-rated servers.

Generally speaking, most characters are dignified and don't get down 'n dirty in the streets

You'll see the same amount of ERP as you do now. None, unless you engage in it yourself. Like I said, nothing would change. People won't randomly start throwing in new words into their character's vocab's either. Strangely enough, people generally keep their characters as they always have. You might even still see substitution words (sometimes, vith and arse sound better depending on the circumstance, character's accent, etc.).

But, that is the whole idea of this. The rule itself is pointless. So don't worry too much about it.

That said, there is a better way to write the rule:

"This server is rated "Teen". What this means, is:

1--No pornographic themes are permitted to be present in server or fourm roleplay. Nudity descriptions should be limited to generalities and should not include specifics about reproductive organs."

[Same as now, people will either use tells, skype, or log into Haven (which does give Haven more coverage!). It stays away from the server proper, and people who don't want to see it can stay away from it. Everyone is happy.]

"2--Keep language respectful to the setting. The projects do not exist yet, animal companions are not called "pokemon", and we don't know what jeans are. etc..

On an out of character level, keep language respectful and cordial to both staff and fellow players."

[This covers all the language rules the server really needs.]

"3--Gore doesn't need to be RPed in great detail. If another individual involved with the RP objects and cannot leave the RP due to IC reasons, then a fade-to-black becomes necessary"

[The only issue with this rule is. . .say two people are RPing some blood/gore and enjoying it. Another player is observing and says that their character would be unable to leave and thus they cannot exist. The two people who were currently RPing are liable to abandon the third person and have/spread negative feelings about them because they ruined their RP by being there.

Hence, why I don't think we really need this third rule. Its not necessary and is liable to produce negative feelings towards the more soft-stomached RPers among the ones who enjoy this sort of RP.]

And, I think that is all we really need. We have the ability to eat hearts, conjures maggots to burrow in the flesh, create profuse wounds to channel magic, desiccate another person's body, cut off our arm and sew on an undead prosthetic, the list goes on.

I don't think we actually can have a "no blood or gore" option, it simply cannot exist in the setting of FR. That being said, as with all RP, is something is uncomfortable its impossible to compel them to stay.

At worst, they can log out and come in on an alt. There is literally no point to trying to make someone RP something they don't want to. At-least in detail, you can always fade to black and RP the result.

---

This way, everyone gets the best of all worlds. The server can keep its teen rating as we've defined it. The server can't actually use ESBR's teen rating legitimately anyway, since Online Interactions Are Not Rated. So, as of now, the server may pretend it has a teen rating, but it actually still has a PG-13 rule until it defines its own teen rating as ESBR themselves state that their teen standard is unable to apply to this environment. Plus, not defining your own removes a lot of agency from yourself to make and enforce rules.

With my suggestion, we can define it, keep RP open, keep everyone happy, and life will go on.

I'd recommend the server adopts rule #1 and rule #2. I don't recommend trying to limit blood/gore/violence, since spell/item effects exist that fall against that rule, not to mention many FR gods, species, and civilizations have bloody and violent rituals that people will want to RP. Not to mention, the world is an inherently violent one, part of the reason many people play it. If people are uncomfortable with certain forms of allowed RP, there is no shame in bowing out.

(I mean, would you play on an FR server where Eldath actually managed to take over the universe? Boooring.)

Since many people are insecure around hard sexual topics, we can eliminate that problem with rule #1. Rule #2 allows us to keep our current forum rules, and will prohibit rude language between players OOCly. ICly, it should be no issue.