Taking Another Whack at Surface Evil RP. Who Wants In?

[Tekill]

If you find yourself rolling your eyes regarding any discussion on Evil RP on this server, just ask yourself why you even need to read this thread?

I have made a lot of 'what is up with Evil' threads in the past.
What is up with it, is that it is difficult to RP evil on the surface, but that is probably why I keep trying.

My only Good character has had a lot of success. He achieves his goals, has had lots of DM events, and he gets in a lot RP, including RP related to his alignment. The RP is encouraged and there are lots of people to team up with. There are so many things going on that I have to write down notes on all the plot lines to keep track. He is the only good character I have played on the server, and I was surprised how fun and action packed it is.

(Nobody would touch my warlock with a 10' pole, even though she was awesome. Aside from The Ebon Blades. Thanks guys!)

So I want to achieve this level of success with an evil player on the surface.
I guess the easiest way to have a successful evil toon is to simply roll a drow and play in the UD. That would be my advise if anyone else was posting this thread.
My rebuttal to this is, I do not like RPing elves/drow very much (I did it to death) and I already have one solid UD toon. The UD is too underpopulated to have more than one UD toon at a time, imo.

Also, I think the surface needs more antagonists, more shamelessly evil players and besides, why do the DM's get to have all the fun being the bad guys!?

From my experience, there are two things that are holding me back:
1) I simply will need other evil players to back me up. It is honestly why the my good surface character shines. Its is the others I team up with. So the same logically should go with other evil players- they are needed - I simply will need backup.

2) The other thing is, I need to not just act evil but to actually do evil things. The good aligned Toons have it easy because if they want they can just let the DM's bring them the plot lines. Really the best way to play an evil character is to be a DM!
Also, regardless of alignment it is difficult to impact the server so, if I was evil, and wanted to start a scheme of some sort, I basically need a DM to help me. The average DM is actually helpful, but they will not generally spend their time on one persons solo plot line. So any schemes will often need a DM and will often need a group of players (see #1) both, in order for there to be success in surface evil RP.

So I have two evil surface characters and one of them has a good plot line or scheme to unleash on the world. I am sort of asking here if there are any other players out there that need Backup, and/or help with their plans. Or are looking to get on the ground floor of a neat idea I have. We can do both. It is mutually beneficial if we teamed up.

Any active evil guilds recruiting, that needs members for example?
Does your religion or cult need henchmen?
Do you also have an idea for a plot/scheme and need help getting it going?

I think we should all organize. We can start networking a bit OOC in order to make things happen IC. Just post on this thread or send me PM's.

[Tekill]

Doing it just to be evil itself is potentially 2 dimensional, granted.

Exploring Lore friendly concepts is one good goal.
Are your plans realistic, can they be executed with or without DM assistance and can they get the numbers of players to join up. And what help do you need?

Are there a lot of lone wolf evil players out there looking for opportunities and not finding any or are there players out there that have an idea for an evil toon but are Leery about starting it. Lets organize a bit and see if we create some more opportunities for evil aligned players.

Are you trying to get a evil guild going an need players. Does your pirate smuggler operation need contracts or customers. Does you evil church need to avoid getting its hands dirty and so wants to contract out?

A lot of evil players are opportunists. Waiting or searching for opportunities to earn fast cash or power. Even thinking of things to do that would meet ones alignment restrictions is often very difficult.

But it helps if we have numbers...and often DMs.

Also, current evil factions are often very secretive and splintered. You can have one player representing an entire church for example.

Basically whats needed and what are we all interested in seeing more of so that we can then successfully organize this in game.

[electric mayhem]

A piece of information that may help others assess whether they can get involved with you, is what timezone (times as well) do you see yourself playing most.

No point trying to line up companions if playing times are incompatible.

[Steve]

Any active evil guilds recruiting, that needs members for example?
Does your religion or cult need henchmen?
Do you also have an idea for a plot/scheme and need help getting it going?

1. Church of Kossuth
2. Yes
3. Purification through Fire.

[enginseer-42]

Any active evil guilds recruiting, that needs members for example?
Does your religion or cult need henchmen?
Do you also have an idea for a plot/scheme and need help getting it going?

1. Church of Kossuth
2. Yes
3. Purification through Fire.

I counter you with this.

[Svabodnik]

I prefer to approach alignment from the perspective that a character's actions should dictate their alignment, rather than a character's alignment dictating their actions. For a quick example, I once played an character (starting out at True Neutral) with the character concept in mind that they would try and perform Good results through the use of Evil magic, and had eventually joined the position of an officer of law, while occasionally subverting doctrine to bring means to an end. The character ended up getting shifted to Good, Evil, Law, and Chaos throughout their playtime and in end result... remained True Neutral. The base character concept remained and seemed to serve true.

I'm not actually too familiar with how requests for DM events go on this server, but from previous experience elsewhere, DMs are far more likely to reply to a specific initiative, made to meet a certain goal, rather than catering to "Hey, I'm evil, give me evil things to do."

If the goal is to serve as an antagonist, what would be the endgame? Undermine the authority of the Baldur's Gate nobles, compromising their plans at every turn? Subverting the hold of the goodly gods, to plunge their greatest servants to a fall from grace? Without such end goal in mind, and starting from the point of "Let's just do Evil for Evil's sake" makes it out to be a bit like acting like a Saturday morning cartoon villain. Alternatively, an Evil goal, goaded by a driven and charismatic leader, could entice Neutral (and sometimes even misguided Good) characters into the story. Being proactive with your plans, rather than waiting around for the absolutely perfect opportunity, seems to hold a much better success rate in my experience.

[Tekill]

"Let's just do Evil for Evil's sake" makes it out to be a bit like acting like a Saturday morning cartoon villain.

Your going to give me a stroke Svabodnik!
Can you site who you are quoting with the use of those quotations?
There are lots of threads on proper and improper evil RP. Lets assume for the sake of this conversation what we not all going to turn into cartoon villains!

Evil has to contend with in game laws and socially accepted morals, and as well, OOC server rules. So lots of strict laws, rules and norms to follow. PG13 and all that.

Here is my complaint:
Our simulated society does not have the darker aspects or the features that any self respecting societies underbelly should have. It just seems to me that there is no black markets, dark intelligence networks, trade in illegal substances, organized crime etc.
Where are the terrorists, where are the murder/death cults, the serial killers (not to be mistaken for murder hobos).

Well we are not completely without these things but we are dependent on DM's for them.

I found it a bit suffocating and so I thought I would post to see if anyone had any suggestions. I got a couple PM's on the topic. Thanks. The gist of some of them was there is lots of evil on the server, but it is just hidden. Hidden as in infiltration and also done behind close doors.

I guess its all just going on right under my nose and I am blissfully ignorant of it. BGTSCC needs a 24 hour news cycle. We should get a couple bards on top of that.

[Steve]

It is completely possible that, a group of Players would/could be Zhentarim PCs, and spend all their time and RP at Darkhold and the surrounding (available) areas being...evil Zhentarim (as considered by Lore).

You could, to that extent, be outwardly Evil within Soubar...cause c'mon, there is literally Mind Flayers there!

Surface Evil is possible...TODAY! Open and outwardly at that.

But the Good PCs and the Evil PCs suffer the same fate—their actions are limited by what they: a) can do with/against the NPCs of the World; b) how the World changes with the PCs existence (something that can only be "approved" of by those that control the NPCs).

That is pretty much it. Good and Evil PCs operate in the same vacuum.

But it is usually the Evil-minded PC (player) that cannot stand the "status quo," and bring or setup chaos or change. The Good-minded defend stability and progress.

The most successful Evil + Surface PCs were the ones that could actually bend the World.

[Svabodnik]

"Let's just do Evil for Evil's sake" makes it out to be a bit like acting like a Saturday morning cartoon villain.

[...]Your going to give me a stroke Svabodnik!
Can you site who you are quoting with the use of those quotations?[...]

[...]Taking Another Whack at Surface Evil RP. Who Wants In?[...]

If you're going to pull a quote out of context from the middle of my post, I'm not entirely unfamiliar with the game.

The point of my post was that without a central goal, alignment-driven RP is a very broad brush that can't entirely capture the direction of a story you wish to tell.

If you want to simply be an antagonist to Goodly characters, you don't even have to play a character of an opposing alignment - a strongly-minded Good character can contest the means and measures of a current group. Are they driven to exterminate evil? Oppose them for their lack of mercy. Do they offer sanctuary in hope of rehabilitating those of an evil heart? Decry and berate them for their failure to serve in the divinely-ordained fight against Evil.

While I did not participate in it, I wholeheartedly enjoyed the presence of the orcish warbands a few weeks back. I would not have labeled it as 'Evil' RP, since I don't imagine a Neutral orc would have been turned away if they offered their axe against the dominion of Baldur's Gate. In fact, if there were an orc with a sliver of Chaotic Good in their heart to fight against the regime, I would not have batted an eye. It was, however, a palpable threat and a fount of RP to be had in regards to the subject. Moreover, even as someone who did not participate, it seemed to strive for a goal and definite purpose.

If you simply wish to RP the darker side of fantasy, it does not necessarily even need to involve Evil alignment, or any alignment at all.

[KOPOJIbPAKOB]

There is an incredible ammount of evil characters among surfacers, majority of them are simply hiding their true intents / not doing anything significant enough to consider them villains. That gives an illusion that surface is populated by knights and adventurers only (which is not true). The first thing you need to do is to start searching for such characters and building relations with them. Secondly, to start thugging around openly, you'll need to create an alternative RP hub that opposes farmlands campfire and other places, you can use Soubar and Roaringshore for that, for example.

[Tsidkenu]

Whereas im just about to give up on my evil surface toon due to a combination of lack of motivation, lack of guild cohesion and most significantly, lack of ideas.

I never wanted to RP a 'Saturday Cartoon Villian'. In fact, mine is more like godfather, my minions do most of the stuff for me. At least, the few minions that managed to last my quirky timezone and occasional ooc absences.

I dont do evil RP well when it comes to big scheme. And when I asked the DMs for help they either didnt have time to, didnt want to, or didnt include me in whatever they were actually doing.

At the end of the day its the status quo that gets to you. I never felt like I could ever make a 'big picture' difference so I just stopped trying and focused my interactions on players/PCs I found to be far more willing to be bent (and in Anthem's case, bodak).

Its the great friendships ive made with my core guildies that keeps me coming back though. I love you guys (& gals!) heaps. Never stop being awesome.

[aaron22]

Tek.

So I want to achieve this level of success with an evil player on the surface.

It can happen. I've had so much going on in multiple levels that I too needed to take notes. It happens though in spurts. It will be a drought for weeks/months then when it rains it pours. As orcs, I am somewhat limited to server plot lines as our toons would not have knowledge of some of the goings on in the good side.

1) I simply will need other evil players to back me up. It is honestly why the my good surface character shines. Its is the others I team up with. So the same logically should go with other evil players- they are needed - I simply will need backup.

takes time. You gotta stick it through a thousand short term attempts to find three or four that will hang around for a while. If you really want this Tek, you will have to learn to endure and be assured that your ends will meet your means. I really want orcs. I am willing to do whatever it takes to progress it. I can give you more insight on how I stay if you want to PM. doubt most ppl care.

2) The other thing is, I need to not just act evil but to actually do evil things. The good aligned Toons have it easy because if they want they can just let the DM's bring them the plot lines. Really the best way to play an evil character is to be a DM!

Do it then. I spent some time creating a foundation for players to RP off of.

What do you want really?
How bad do you want it?

PM if you have questions or ask them here. I am not shy.

number one thing..
Have fun out there

[Steve]

I keep wondering why Soubar or another area in the Lawless North has NOT become a place where Evil Minded PCs can just freely "hang out?"

That was exactly what the norther expansion project was meant to provide, when it was drafted and finally implemented.

I have the feeling that Players keep their Evil minded PCs "secret" because otherwise, they'd have no other Playerd to RP with on a daily basis. Obviously, it makes little sense to expect a Paladin and a Blackguard to share a campfire and discuss Lore: Religion over brisket.

My point is I think we are all looking for interaction, and development, and storybuilding—not telling...—with our Characters. And the lack of an Evil Minded hub used with daily frequency—tavern, hideout, castle, etc—causes a general lack in Evil amassing and Evil plotting and Evil acting upon the Sword Coast.

The possibilities are truly there, existing now: Darkhold, Soubar, Roaringshore, etc. But these hubs seem almost always vacant and abandoned.

[aaron22]

it takes perseverance steve. It takes a group of individual players motivated to do this over a long period. meet all the resistance and carry on. Keep moving forward.

good RP is ready made. it was created years ago and supported to the -enth degree.

I would imagine most "evil-ish" players want cake and eat it too. they are perfectly happy being tolerable evil so they can mix it up in the goodie hubs. this is not what I am talking about.

these players would need to abandon the good hub and spend time in this evil hub for a long time and be good enough to hold it. it wont happen over night and if it does it wont last. to make a lasting hub will take time.

[thids]

As they would say in the Balkans: Small pond, lots of crocodiles.