Conditional Examine

[Snarfy]

Did you use & signs or anything else that's in those lines of gibberish that tell it what skill the following text is for?

I tried copying my normal description over at first, which didn't work, and even something as benign as "Testing 1 2 3" (no quotes) which also gave me errors. Perhaps I simply don't know what the function of the conditional examine is to begin with... none of it really made any sense(plus, I also have zero patience).

[Winterborne]

You can't just put normal text in. You need a condition. If you want something always visible, that condition needs to be "no condition".

[Snarfy]

You can't just put normal text in. You need a condition. If you want something always visible, that condition needs to be "no condition".

Gotcha. Played around with it a bit, I think I have it figured out. Except for transferring your existing description into this thing... that one is eluding me(the transfer button does nothing).

It's important to note, for those who are still trying to sort this out, that there needs to be no spaces between the code and your input text after you 'set' a condition.

[Pimple]

Thankfully, a new line doesn't seem to be a problem.

[Calodan]

THIS IS AWESOME!!!!!!! I finally went ahead and figured it out. It is the most neat new tool yet! I LOVEEEEET!

[Tsidkenu]

And will our saved descriptions get wiped if/when this functionality gets its overhaul/upgrade/incorporation with the complete appraise/examine/bio system?

[Tekill]

Would it be possible to create a Conditional Examine with True Seeing, or Detect Illusion being the conditions?
Suggestion for the future perhaps?

[Touri]

I am aware of the conditional examine, but I won't use it for myself nor examine others. I really wonder if the possible conditions are related to the character sheet (Skills). As I undertsood it, you can set the dc by yourself without restriction.

Actually it forces skill rolls between players, so I don't think it is something that you require to follow at all, especially if the dc is set by the players randomly.

– Skill Rolls Between players
– Skill rolls may be used as guidelines in RP. However, a player is not required to follow any Skill rolls unless a DM enforces it. Only a DM may enforce skill rolls.

[Deathgrowl]

Not sure I quite agree with that interpretation of it, Touri. This is for descriptions of the character. Just flavour. There's nothing in it that will give the character advantage over others somehow, such as it would be if you could enforce bluff rolls and such in conversation.

Here you're just getting a description of the character based on your character's skills to recognise those descriptions. The person could just omit that description in the first place and you'd be none-the-wiser.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

DG is correct.

[Tsidkenu]

Reviving this thread just to point out that any DC calculations set using the Conditional Examine feature seem to be based on spent ranks only and do not include modifiers from items, feats, spells or other abilities.

Tested this with a fellow who had a DC 10 spot check in his conditional examine. My rogue (spot 23) could notice it fine. My cleric (spot 11 but 0 spent ranks) could not see the description at all.

Thus, my suggestion to my fellow players: Do not set any Conditional Description DC above 33, otherwise no-one will be able to see it. Ever.

Devs might wanna look into if this is something that needs a fix.

[electric mayhem]

Thus, my suggestion to my fellow players: Do not set any Conditional Description DC above 33, otherwise no-one will be able to see it. Ever.

Not to mention, let's be inclusive with our C.Ex's. Don't set them stupidly high in general. We want people to use our descriptions and notice our characters. Otherwise what's the point at all.

Putting some points into the skills makes one trained. Putting stupid amounts of points into a skill makes you a god at the skill.
I'm sure there's a common sense guide to distributing skill point worth on here somewhere.

[ValerieJean]

Yes aware one of these days I'll type it up..

[Hoihe]

Thus, my suggestion to my fellow players: Do not set any Conditional Description DC above 33, otherwise no-one will be able to see it. Ever.

Not to mention, let's be inclusive with our C.Ex's. Don't set them stupidly high in general. We want people to use our descriptions and notice our characters. Otherwise what's the point at all.

Putting some points into the skills makes one trained. Putting stupid amounts of points into a skill makes you a god at the skill.
I'm sure there's a common sense guide to distributing skill point worth on here somewhere.

I recommend using this (albeit homebrew) framework for your DCs, while keeping in mind conditional examine doesn't have rolls.

You decide what makes sense by asking the following questions:

1. Would a level 0 commoner be able to do this?
2. If not, would a level 4 commoner be able to do this? (adjust for 8 so it's in line with BG having adventurers at level 15 x 2)
3. If not, would a level 0 Expert/Adept/Warrior/Aristocrat be able to do this?
4. If not, would a level 4 Expert/Adept/Warrior/Aristocrat be able to do this? (adjust for 8)
6. If not, would a level 1 Adventurer classed character be able to do this? (adjust to 2)
7. If not, would a level 4 adventurer classed character be able to do this? (adjust to 8)
8. If not, would a level 8 adventurer classed character be able to do this? (adjust to 16)
9. If not, would a level 15 adventurer classed character be able to do this? (Adjust to 30)
10. If not, would a level 20 adventurer classed character be able to do this? (Adjust to 40)

Make the following assumptions to answer the above:

1. The world is inhabited primarily by level 0 commoners who do things just fine
2. Level 4 commoners tend to be veterans at their professions
3. Level 0 specialists tend to be the second most common, and represent the majority of craftsmen/skilled labourers/scholars
4. Level 4 Specialists tend to be guild masters, senior scholars, high ranking millitary officers, what have you
5. A level 1 adventurer is relatively common, but tend to be able to accomplish more than most people.
6. A level 4 adventurer is still relatively common, but are rarely hindered by mundane aspects of life. Instead, they are able to survive sub-optimal circumnstances (think Army Rangers/Delta Force being trained to go days with barely no sleep and still do their job)
7. A level 8 adventurer is prepared to deal with extraoridinary matters. The only thing that will throw them off is doing things in the heat of combat, having no equipment AND bad environmental conditions. These guys are elites.
8. A level 15 adventurer does things that are the stuff of legends. A level 15 adventurer will somehow be able to find a hidden uncharted island working off of legends and hearsay and minimal data provided by poor weather conditions, broken instruments and such. They will not succeed always, but they have a good chance to do so. Doing a practised thing in poor conditions does not affect their chance of success.
9. A level 20 adventurer does what a level 15 does, except with much higher certainity. It also tends into mythical qualities, the stuff that greeks tell of their greatest heroes.

For the above, use the following rules depending on intended safety margin:
If NOT using the assumption that the world is twice its power level/PCs are half their own:

• For a level 0 Commoner, DC of 10 is the highest due to being untrained. Anything above DC 10 is very unlikely, unless training is not required for the skill or it's a safe. However, the idea remains that DC of 5 is realistic, 10 is possible, 15 is unlikely, 20 is lucky.
• For a level 0 specialist, adjust all DCs by 2-6 depending on stat spread. I'd go with 5 (full investment and ability affinity)
• For a level 4 commoner, DCs may be higher by 2-3 (assume cross-class/low int/1 ability affinity)
• For a level 4 specialist, Commoner 0 DCs may be increased by 5-9 (depending on stat spread, assuming class skill).
• For a level 1-4 adventurer, use specialist values, but tend towards higher due to stat affinity
• For a level 8 adventurer, take commoner 0 values and add 11 and stat affinity of 3 (+14)
• For level 15, take commoner 0 values and add 18 and stat affinity of 4 (+22)
• For level 20, take commoner 0 and add 23 and stat affinity of 5 (+28)

IF using the 2X assumption.

• For a level 0 commoner, values are the same. 5 for easy, 10 for possible, 15 for unlikely, 20 for lucky
• For level 0 specialist, values are the same (add 2-6 to commoner 0)
• For level 4 commoner (8), take commoner 0 and add 5 (cross class) and affinity of 1 (+6)
• For level 4 specialist (8), take commoner 0 and add 11 (class) and affinity of 2 (+13)
• For adventurer 1-4 (2-8), do as level 4 specialist, but affinity +1 compared to specialist for apporpriate. (+14 at 4)
• For adventurer 8 (16), take commoner 0 and add 19 to the DC for class skill and affinity of 4 (+25)
• For adventurer of 15 (30), take commoner 0 and add 33 and affinity of 6 (39)
• For adventurer of 20 (40), take commoner 0 and add 43 and affinity of 8 (51)

As long as the DMs keep in mind the probability of an NPC needing to do the same task, and what kind of NPC succeeding at it, DCs will remain normal.

It's an intuitive system that doesn't need looking at d20srd if the complaint is "it crashed the DM client to alt tab".

• A challenge that puts one encounters every day would be aimed at a commoner 0.
• A challenge that puts an average working NPC to the test would be aimed at specialist 0.
• A challenge that puts an experienced commoner to the test would be at commoner 4
• A challenge that requires a talented specialist with decades of experience would be at specialist 4
• A Challenge that puts Theseus/Odysseus to the test would be aimed at Adventurer 8
• A challenge that puts Orion to the test would be aimed at Adventurer 15.
• A challenge that puts Achilles/Heracles to the test would be aimed at adventurer 20.

[thids]

My entire conditional examine has several DC 99 skill checks. Whoever manages to read it is a nerd.