Death Atk Paralysis- Useless?

[Darkwind]

Hello again folks!

First, this open RCR period has been --amazing-- and I really think it would be good to maybe just leave it as is. It allows for lots of server specific stuff you cannot do w/ offline trainers. I've been able to 'test drive' a huge amount of builds and though its still annoying to have to mule stuff over its really great for figuring out the strengths and weaknesses of varying builds. You'd never be able to do this under normal rules.

With that caveat out of the way; Death Attack.

I'm guessing this is just like any 'DC' based anything here which is unless you specialize in it, its going to be useless more or less. DA seems especially useless though given how it works. On an average build that isn't INT spec'd you are going to see maybe around 25 as your DC. Over level 20 this may as well be DC 1 because of the comically inflated saves of all monsters.

So is the paralysis part of DA simply something for 20th and below? It 'sometimes' works in the teens but over 20 its effectively useless. With an INT build you could get it into the 30s and make it decent but unless you are running a Swashbuckler I don't think anyone would use INT exclusively in any Assassin build. For the 'normal' dex build you seem to be stuck.

I'm guessing that Practiced Spellcaster will NOT work to add +4 DC to this since its not a spell, right? Other than turning INT into your dump stat is there any way to get this to work better. Crippling Strike obviously will knock STR down but I think that is about it to make it effective.

Again, advice is what I'm seeking here because it seems to be ineffective above a certain level.

[chad878262]

There is a bug where all your attacks ot of stealth are death attacks of the enemy is not in combat stance... far from useless even with low dc.... focusing on int makes it more useful, but it's still good even with DC 20.

[Valefort]

Even the lowest DC on death attack is very useful, mobs do roll 1s and depending on your build the monster might have to make many saves.

The usual is a ranged assassin but a TWF assassin works very well too !

Using manyshot from HiPS means the target will receive 3 attacks in the first flurry (assuming BAB 26+, for example a ranger/assassin), so 6 paralyze checks ! (one for each arrow)

Then you do the math, even if the monster can only fail on a 1 he must succeed on all the 6 rolls .. ie (19/20)^6 = 73.5% chances of not being paralyzed, in other words pretty good odds of paralyzing your target, especially since with at least a DC 20 death attack (10 (base) + 8 (assassin levels) + 2 (INT mod)), your odds are better than just 1-(19/20)^6 as monsters don't have 40 fort save (far from it).

[Darkwind]

There is a bug where all your attacks ot of stealth are death attacks of the enemy is not in combat stance... far from useless even with low dc.... focusing on int makes it more useful, but it's still good even with DC 20.

Using manyshot from HiPS means the target will receive 3 attacks in the first flurry (assuming BAB 26+, for example a ranger/assassin), so 6 paralyze checks ! (one for each arrow)

Well... that HIGHLY changes the math, yes. I didn't realize it proc'd on -every- single sneak attack so yes quite powerful w/ that in mind!

I hope you don't 'fix' that because it would kind of suck w/o it.

[Blackman D]

i have two assassins, both with a +6 INT and 9 levels for a DC 25

mobs rarely fail but one of them is AA and gets 4 attempt out of stealth so gets a decent chance and the other only gets two but has way more SA damage so it almost doesnt matter if they fail or not

its great on mobs that can fail it easier because it doesnt save every round like PMs paralysis touch so you can stun multiple mobs to make things easier before killing them off

[ARHicks00]

Is Death Attack useless? Yes it is as it only works with HipS/HitS since DA can only be applied during an intiative attack not as a general sneak attack unless that has changed. It is also useless if the person has a high fort save and immunity to paralyze effects.

Death attack is useful against mages and low level characters.

[chad878262]

Why should it be made more powerful? It's quite strong as it is, as has been stated with examples above.

[Deathgrowl]

Is Death Attack useless? Yes it is as it only works with HipS/HitS since DA can only be applied during an intiative attack not as a general sneak attack unless that has changed. It is also useless if the person has a high fort save and immunity to paralyze effects.

Death attack is useful against mages and low level characters.

This is a PvP concern only. And it's not even accurate.

In PvE, it's fantastic.

[metaquad4]

Death Attack is fairly useful. For one, it is generally free for most sneak attackers. Assassin is practically a must-have for most sneak attackers. So, it comes free and while the DC might not be high, you'll get enemies rolling 1 a fair bit.

With a bow, Death Attack rolls 6 times in your SA flurry, which has a very good chance of netting you a paralyze roll.

If it was assassin's only class feature, it might not be worth it. But taken as a whole instead of in a vacuum, it is pretty strong.

I'm guessing that Practiced Spellcaster will NOT work to add +4 DC to this since its not a spell, right?

Practiced Spellcaster adds in CL based on how many levels of dead CL you have, not DC! Just an fyi!

[Fury_US]

To re-emphasize the usefulness of Death Attack, in an event run by DM Ink last night, Winterborne's Nathan Goldenmane engaged our end target- a massive Erinyes who was shooting arrows that did around 100-180 dmg per shot. Rolled a 1 on her save, and- with both the paralysis of the death attack and then blinded by his blinding strike...could do nothing but stand there and get destroyed by a couple of little backstabbers.

It can happen.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

Death attack is useful against mages

Hilater's Misdirection Wiki Entry

[Winterborne]

To re-emphasize the usefulness of Death Attack, in an event run by DM Ink last night, Winterborne's Nathan Goldenmane engaged our end target- a massive Erinyes who was shooting arrows that did around 100-180 dmg per shot. Rolled a 1 on her save, and- with both the paralysis of the death attack and then blinded by his blinding strike...could do nothing but stand there and get destroyed by a couple of little backstabbers.

It can happen.

I'm going to enjoy the glory of that while I can but I can already feel the revenge being planned. XD

Second time an Erinyes boss has fallen to me getting lucky rolls (the first was some time ago where I cut a different ones bowstring before she could attack).

They're gonna put a hit out on me, I swear.

[electric mayhem]

Death Attack is fairly useful.

With a bow, Death Attack rolls 6 times in your SA flurry, which has a very good chance of netting you a paralyze roll.

Agreed with this.

Ran a specific AA/Asn build a while back... rekt alot of the pve content.

[Shadow]

I don't take assassin for the DA....I take it for the bugged DA with ranged attacks out of stealth to get that oh so delicious high amount of dmg. Hitting 80 dmg avg out of stealth...

I would agree that DA is useful but your group needs to let you do your thing but most groups do not and just mob it so you just need to realize that you are a sneaker with an extra few attacks out of your first sneak flurry.

[ARHicks00]

Is Death Attack useless? Yes it is as it only works with HipS/HitS since DA can only be applied during an intiative attack not as a general sneak attack unless that has changed. It is also useless if the person has a high fort save and immunity to paralyze effects.

Death attack is useful against mages and low level characters.

This is a PvP concern only. And it's not even accurate.

In PvE, it's fantastic.

I was referring to both.