Ghost Sight (Phantom vs. Ghost-Faced Killer)

[Theodore01]

Is Ghost Sight from Phantom always active ?
and Ghost Sight from GFK only 10min 3/day ?

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Ghost Sight (Phantom)
At 16th level and higher, a phantom can see invisible and ethereal creatures as easily as she sees material creatures and objects.

Ghost Sight (GFK)
Starting at 10th level, a Ghost Faced Killer can see Ethereal and Invisible objexts as easily as he sees material objects and creatures. This is an instantly activated ability. The Ghost Faced Killer can used this ability 3 times per day, 10 minutes per use.

[KOPOJIbPAKOB]

Both abilities automatically apply a constantly active True seeing buff upon rest/logging in that lasts forever (but drops when you die).

[Hendrak]

Didnt you mean a "see invisible" effect? True seeing effects are doing more and are quite stronger mechanically. The class description sounds more like a see invisible effect.

[KOPOJIbPAKOB]

Didnt you mean a "see invisible" effect? True seeing effects are doing more and are quite stronger mechanically. The class description sounds more like a see invisible effect.

No, this is actually a true seing spell

[Hendrak]

wow!

not sure then why people complained about phantom in the past.

[Tsidkenu]

The feat utilises the 'True Seeing' icon but should not be RPed more than the effects of See Invisibility. Ghost Sight should not (I don't know if it actually does) pierce illusions like Disguise Self, Mirror Image and Displacement.

[Endelyon]

The feat utilises the 'True Seeing' icon but should not be RPed more than the effects of See Invisibility. Ghost Sight should not (I don't know if it actually does) pierce illusions like Disguise Self, Mirror Image and Displacement.

This is incorrect. Phantom's ability is a True Seeing effect (NOT See Invisibility) and should be RPed like one. See Invisibility does not allow one to see ethereal creatures. I'll change the class descriptions to explicitly say that the effect is True Seeing.

[wurdpass]

Does the ability have a CL in order to see past Mirror Image?

[Endelyon]

Nope. That only works with the real spell (and not very well at that, just applying a +5 attack bonus against a target that has mirrors).

[Tsidkenu]

See Invisibility can see Ethereal subjects the same as True Seeing can, Elly, at least according to base 3.5ed rules. See Invisibility cannot pierce other kinds of illusory effects (eg. Disguise Self, Displacement, Mirror Image) or see the true form of polymorphed creatures; for that you need Detect Illusion or True Seeing.

If we're talking about pure mechanics, does True Seeing (as opposed to See Invis) even mechanically permit a PC to target other ethereal NPC/PCs? I don't even think there's a mechanical argument to be made here because they're both equally useless at actually letting ethereal target be attacked by the viewer.

Of course if BG is going homebrew See Invisibility on this point that's also fine. The DMs need to make a fiat decision that in spite of 3.5 rules See Invis cannot be used to perceive ethereal creatures because otherwise players like me don't know why we should RP one way or the other (and I've always RPed See Invis as per 3.5 rules). The clarification in the wording would be appreciated, including updating both See Invisibility spell description & the Phantom's Ghost Sight feat description with the full RP effects of the ability, namely that it pierces all illusory, ethereal and polymorph effects and it's legitimate to RP all of those.

[electric mayhem]

I thought the biggest benefit was to pierce concealment. Wasn't that the whole point of the feat for the phantom and ghost stalkers?
To see spirits as they truly are?
i.e. They definitely don't need blind fight in their builds

[Tsidkenu]

I will add the reason it riles me up a bit is because saying it's RPly True Seeing you're basically letting this class permanently godmode every player that utilises magical disguises for RP which I don't believe is the intention of the feat. At least classes like mages, clerics and druids will have periods when they do not have Detect Illusion/True Seeing active so disguised players still have a 'chance'.

Perma See Invisibility allows the full RP spectrum of the Ghost Sight feat (and I don't even know if there's a mechanical argument for True Seeing so phantoms can actually attack ethereal targets) without them getting a permanent godmode ability to ruin every disguise player's RP, including druids and mages who use wildshape/polymorph to disguise.

Then again I'm retiring my disguise character very soon so my overall opinion still remains fairly 'meh, whatever.'

[Endelyon]

Nah I see your point, I didn't realize See Invisibility counts against eth creatures. It is supposed to be a See Invis effect in that case, the point is being able to see ghosts.

[wurdpass]

I thought the biggest benefit was to pierce concealment. Wasn't that the whole point of the feat for the phantom and ghost stalkers?
To see spirits as they truly are?
i.e. They definitely don't need blind fight in their builds

So does the ability pierce displacement or not?

Assume it's the same for warlock witch sight?

[electric mayhem]

haven't made one. just read the class descriptions and researched in the countless historic threads on here.