Making a Dwarven Dual-Wielder

[Okan]

I was hoping if the master builders of the server can help me figure out how to build dwarven dual wielder.

The parameters that I am looking for;
Shield Dwarf
Preferably Dwarven Waraxes, if oversized two weapon fighting cant be included or a bad idea, I can work with a handaxes as off hand.
Ability to function solo for pve content, I dont expect to solo all bosses or anything like that, but during my playtime hours where I do pve content it is quite hard to form a group.

I do not mind if it's gear reliant.

Thank you for future help.

[Wyatt]

There are at least a few good options for dual wielding dwarves. If you are dead set on waraxes a ranger works great. You can go pure ranger 30 with lots of strength or add some other splashes. Cavestalker 3 is a good splash for ranger and still lets you keep your 30 CL with practiced spell caster. You could also splash battlerager for a bit more ac or dwarven defender depending on what is important to you.

[Okan]

Wiki states Cavestalker progresses Ranger caster progression so there should be no need for PSC I think. My initial thought was 21 ranger/9 Cavestalker, but I haven't played rangers apart from a couple of low level toons so I do not know how to build them properly, stat/feat/skill selection wise.

[wurdpass]

I find getting adequate AC/defense to be the challenge on this sort of build. Ranger / Dwarf Defender solves this problem to some extent. I also think there's probably a way to use GTWF, northlander hewing and fighter 12 feats to have comparable damage to a PTWF build while potentially having more class flexibility.

[chad878262]

One word to make a Ranger with adequate AC and that word is ICE...

Ranger has high BAB and can be built STR based or DEX based to reach AB of ~45 or so, dropping down to 39 is not an issue since you have Expose Weakness. You can certainly go OSTWF to use Dwarven Waraxe in both hands, but ranger's like a LOT of feats so you might have to determine if it's 'worth it' to do ~2 more damage average per hit vs. handaxe (it is a personal decision IMO, there are a lot of feats that ranger builds want so they get feat starved quickly.

Another option is foregoing PTWF for Greater TWF which has LOTS of options. Here are a few:

F12/R6/T5/WM7 - This gives you a solid reason to go OSTWF with dwarven axes as a weapon master. Will be tough with Feats, but you'll be a GTWF Dwarven Waraxe wielding whirlwind of destruction. Ranger 6 is to get Improved TWF without going over 14 DEX, F12 helps with feats, but note due to Weapon Master/Tempest requirements you may or may not have enough feats to go for epic weapon specialization (though of course you will want melee mastery.)

F8/B8/DP10/T4 - Like Ranger, 6 levels of Dread Pirate will give you Improved Two Weapon Fighting thus opening up Tempest. Requires Weapon Finesse while still being a STR based build, but otherwise no big deal. Bard will make some required skills in to class skills while Fighter gives some feats/AB... Might want to drop Fighter to 4 to go B11/F4/DP10/T5 or something along those lines...up to you.

Barbarian 20 / Tempest 5 / Battlerager 5 - Barbarian + anything is OP... You'll need 17 DEX to take Improved TWF, but Tempest still saves you from 19 DEX required for GTWF. Battlerager and Tempest means an extra +4 AC on top of the bonuses from Barbarian.... This is probably the 'most powerful' build simply because it is a Barbarian.

[Theodore01]

Played a F12,Temp5,Dervish10,Ro3 with oversized greater TWF once. It was fun.

Today i would take F12,Temp5,Dervish10,SD3 instead. Probably full DEX with deadly defense and handaxes.

[wurdpass]

Played a F12,Temp5,Dervish10,Ro3 with oversized greater TWF once. It was fun.

Today i would take F12,Temp5,Dervish10,SD3 instead. Probably full DEX with deadly defense and handaxes.

By my math the Dex build does like ~22 dmg when not in Dervish Dance and before crits you think this would be enough? Or maybe it's all about the crits and that's what I'm not accounting for.
With AC of ~50 in CE before shield wands although maybe you have feats for TWDefense which doesn't seem like a ton when you're not dealing more damage.

Don't mean to be critical I have wondered if this kind of build would do enough before and not known the answer.

[Deathgrowl]

Fighter12/dwarven defender10/tempest5/rogue3

16 dex, increase once to get imp twf.

Oversized twf.

Get that dwarven waraxe and flail it till your heart's content. Should be pretty defensive too, for a two weapon fighter.

EDIT:
Here you go: http://nwn2db.com/build/?305860

[Theodore01]

D6+4EB+D6elem.+D4(deadly)+8(Wsp+mastery)+3(13+3STR) = 18-31/16-29 offhand. +5+2D6 (dancing+1000cuts) = 25-48/23-45 max. crit. 54-93 (75-144)

Seems not bad for a non-sneaking hipser.
http://nwn2db.com/build/?305859


Another nice option is a dualwielding Bard8, Dread Pirate10, Weapon Master7, Tempest5 which crits a lot more often, but has no hips and is a late bloomer.
D6+4EB+D6elem.+D4(deadly)+5(inspire)+3(13+3STR) = 15-28/13-26. crit. 60-112

[Okan]

Thanks a lot everyone, I really appreciate it. Deathgrowl, for the Tempest build you have posted, would it be feasible to add Steadfast and NH? If so which feats would you cut to put those in?

[Deathgrowl]

Currently, all of the feats (except able learner) are required, since tempest is a bit feat heavy. But you could drop oversized two weapon fighting and go for handaxes instead. That would free up one feat at least. You could also drop able learner and suffer the crossclass penalty of skill points.

[wurdpass]

I would probably prefer the original build but to the question:

Given your relatively low Dex score anyway you might consider wearing Medium Armor and dropping Tempest to three (you also lose Tempest Whirlwind) to free up 2 fighter levels for NLH feat.

Rogue can also be replaced altogether, which again I would prefer Expose but you still have the options. You can replace with Fighter levels, Div Champ or Dervish I think and additionally you won't take Expose so you save those feats.

Besides these compromises, I will say that because of how Northlander Hewing behaves with critical hits, it can sometimes be frustrating to use on a build like this (I played the Bard / Pirate / Tempest / WM build mentioned).

[Okan]

Now that we have a %100 RCR period available I was thinking tweaking my ranger26/cavestalker4 build.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?306922

If you have any feedback or changes you think that would make this mechanically more viable, I'd appreciate it. Skills are a bit messy due to nwn2db not having cavestalker.

If I am not making miscalculations here are the numbers I am expecting:

AC: 10(base) +1(LoH) +4(Dex) +5(Bearskin armor) +4(armor EB) +5(barskin) +1(cavestalker AC) +4(Halo of Sand) +4(Dodge Boots) +3(Tumble) +2(protective Ward) +1(Armor Skin) for 44 AC with gear/self buffs. 50 with ICE and another possible +7 with Shield and IMA. I think it's pretty decent for a dual wielder.

AB: 30(base) +9(STR) +4(EB) +1(Epic Prowess) +3(Ranger buffs) -2(TWF) for 45 AB(47 for Favored enemies) wth Expose weakness.

Damage: 12 APR, Main hand, 1d10(5.5) +9 +4 +1d4(2.5) for 21 avarage damage, 35 avarage against FE. -5 for off hand attacks
With Northlander Hewing active 8 APR 30 average damage, 44 average against FE, -5 for off-hand attacks.

[chad878262]

Cavestalker bonus feats are off the Ranger list which means Favored Enemies, so you can't take Improved Combat Expertise with CS 3 bonus feat. Plus side is you now have 4 Favored Enemies left to chose instead of 3.

I would say ICE is more important than Oversized Two Weapon Fighting for a Ranger... Dwarven Waraxe in the offhand is ~5.5 average damage while Handaxe is ~3.5... 2 points of damage is nice, but not the end of the world, PTWF Rangers need AC wherever they can get it. You might consider dropping CON to 14 in favor of WIS to 14 since it's kind of a pain if you need to unequip an item and lose spells, but that's up to you. I've played a Ranger with 11 WIS who used a +3 WIS hood to have 14 for spellcasting and it of course can be done, but there is invariably an RP situation or some other situation where you forget that spellcasting is tied to that slot which can suck.

[Okan]

You can get CE and ICE as cavestalker bonus feats. My current build has done so for one of them for example. I think it is intentional as the wiki also says that you can. Even if I couldn't pick them at cavestalker levels and have to pick an FE, I'd use my ranger epic bonus -which is how I get my 7th FE- to get ICE so there wouldn't be a difference on that regard. I will think about Con, Wis swap, that's a good point.

Considering I get ICE regardless, do you have other alternative options for OTWF? My main reason for OTWF -apart from Dwarven Waraxe that is- is to have more weapon type options in the case that I find cool alternatives or have an easier time to collect decent weapons of other materials