Game Balance

[c2k]

Well, it really depends on what the nerfs are targeting. Is it PvP, PvE, or is it for Lore purposes.

Dragon Druid is a gross build and is OP in most situations. It could get hit with a nerf and still be decent.

That said, nothing on this server really needs to be buffed anymore for PvE. You can smash thru most PvE with an average strength build. You only need a god build if you plan to attempt to solo the Epic level areas. These god builds can get nerfed and they wouldn't hurt game balance, they would just make soloing the highest level content tougher.

Then again, perhaps BG is set in its ways with timed runs and knowing when certain high level areas reset, to the point where people are afraid if their god build gets nerfed, it will throw the clock off and other people might have the opportunity steal the riches.

[RagingPeace]

The nerfs are a welcome sight. Why were dragon druids not touched?

I still feel there is a gap between divine casters and melee that are not barbarians or weapon masters.

If you nerf dragon druids, WMs and fighters will still suck. You won't have solved the existing problem and you will have created a new one.

This is the intelligence behind nerfs: make all classes equally bad.

This is true, but I do think it is less work nerfing since you won't have to boost all the NPC enemies of the server to match the strength of a dragon druid.

[Steve]

Buff the Commoner class!!!

I'm here all week...

[Theodore01]

How about nerfing the dragonslayer class or improving it for non-casters ???

[PiaMango]

If you nerf dragon druids, WMs and fighters will still suck. You won't have solved the existing problem and you will have created a new one.

This is the intelligence behind nerfs: make all classes equally bad.

When you play dnd its nice to feel like your character brings something to the party, that they are valuable in one way or another. In epic levels bards, druids, and clerics/fvs are master of all and I feel it tarnishes the individuality other classes. They can tank like a dwarven defender, put out damage like a fighter (maybe not a wm), and have access to a ton of utility through spells/songs. When I've hit epic levels playing melee characters I always start to wonder why I am playing this class when I could be playing one of those classes that gives me all this and so much more.

Yes their abilities are limited by their spells but they have more than enough in the bag to clear out a dungeon & I haven't been in many events where the DM hasn't made it obvious that the BBEG is around the corner to allow players to buff or limit rests too drastically.

[cosmic ray]

The problem is that the people currently handling balance on the server can't seem to distinguish between nerfing and crippling.

[Valefort]

Which nerf do you consider crippling and why ?

[cosmic ray]

The divine power nerf takes the basic spell that mkes the cleric class and makes it useless. Don't you think that someone got "slightly" carried away?

This is not to mention the hassle that is seeing such fundamental changes still being done in 2019. This is not a minor tweak.

Edit: if we can expect the same logic in nerfing the dragon shape, then that ability will become useless outside of rp. Don't forget that shapeshifted druids are limited to using spells and attacking. They can't use potions of heal etc if spells fail.

[matelener]

Capping at +8 AB and +6 STR is what's called useless nowadays?

[Steve]

Cosmic, my man! I know you're passionate about this subject, and obviously disagree with the Divine Power change, but saying the change makes it "useless" is just so factually wrong, and leaves absolutely no room for meaningful discussion.

I'll help.

@Valefort: why did the Devs—and hopefully QC supporting them—decide Divine Power was TOO powerful in Buffing BAB? Is there any comparison you and others made, to present a concise view on the pre/post effects of Divine Power and making BAB into AB buff? Does this change you're making open up for new Content or power changes to other Feats/Spells, which is a trade off you reckon the Playerbase will, in the end, be not only much better off in terms of experience, but actually increase the Enjoyment Factor of Cleric +/- other Classe and Abilities?

Cheers.

[Valefort]

That change opens up specialization paths for clerics, ie casting over bashing or bashing focused, the change to Hierophant is to be understood with that in mind as well. Making a low BAB caster focused divine PRC would now be more meaningful.

As for the change to divine power at most it removes the 6th attack and a few AB points (and that's only if you're in a group giving you more AB bonuses, like wizard or bard). On the other hand divine power is now -buffed- for builds who include high BAB cleric PRCs, for example a cleric 20/Hospitaler 10 has 25 BAB, and therefore got +5 BAB from old divine power but would now get +8 AB from it, specialization.

[wangxiuming]

... I had wanted to say a bunch, but Valefort replied before me. So I just want to leave the below quote from ravial that assures the AB bonus from Divine Power is not subject to the +20 AB cap. To end up with the total AB you had before, you just have to make sure you're casting Divine Power after everything else that is subject to the +20 AB cap.

And yes, the AB bonuses will go beyond the cap, so the +AB spell selection has to be arranged properly when buffing up

[cosmic ray]

It could be +800 AB and it wouldn't matter in a world with AB capping at +20.

[Young Werther]

And yes, the AB bonuses will go beyond the cap, so the +AB spell selection has to be arranged properly when buffing up

Seems spotty if you're weaving in and out of bard song and if you're a fan of the spell blessed aim. But better than I thought.

EDIT: Oh, blessed aim isn't a +20 ab for ranged nvm.

[cosmic ray]

I was on my phone earlier and didn't see that sentence.

How exactly will the divine power buff go beyond the cap? I mean, how will it work in practice?