Game Balance

[Valefort]

I've played one and I can assure you that they're not lackluster, especially now with the epic shop gear ....

[pimpjwp]

Ah druids have no problem hitting things at all warded they have the exact same ab as rogues and pure monks. They just have 20 ac higher 300 hp more 15 on each save higher and can be immune to all with magic . I also have a dragon and he deals 60 to 100 in meele a round . About 30 dmg hit and hit most things 2 to 3 times a round . Now thats before dropping full dc mage bombs that can kill or take all hp in one spell cast heals and cocoons on top of premonition. Dragon druid is by far the simplest way to gain the most power. You dont have to know almost anything cast 5 wards shift and bam your strongsr than half the powerbuilds out there dont need tactics or decnt playing . Only a boss can even scratch a dragon druid pve unless your not paying attention and pvp only a power build can kill them. Your run of the mill toon cant hurt a dragon at all. Most low and meduim bab toons cant hit them have lower ac than them and no spells . The dragon druid need a 8 or better to hit the balor thats not a hard time hitting things at all .
Broken classes divine seeker , stormlord, warrior of darkness or anionted knight, pure monk , rogues, arcane trickster, the seeker , stormlord and trickster are very terrible on this server and almost no one runs them at all and if you do your very far behind others in power . A pure monk here is way less powerful than a pure druid the exact opposote of pen and paper .
Lets stop with the whole oh druids are only good at tanking , most tanks cant one shot bosses or kill a entire map with one spell , they hit the same as any meduim bab class but do more dmg per hit . Cant use items but when your immune to all elements all death magic most classes rogue warlock etc cant hit you but you can hit them and have access to full hp with healing and coocons on top of premonition who needs items any how lol.
Beef the lesser classes leave some alone rogue and monk are massively behind the dragon in every way but skills . Nerfing only causes more imblalance and puts other that much farther behind . On low magic server cleric bard druid etc will be more powerful than alot of classes only way to fix this is to remove magic completly or add plus 12 items . Neither of which would be a good thing here in any way. Going over board with balancing makes things much worse than just leaving things alone. Every major nerf not the tiny ones drives players to other games or servers. Change isn't a bad things getting a new car is great can you imagine if your new car only had three wheels and were told well its on par with the others now even though many cars you are looking at have 4 wheels lol. Nerfing also causes giant comminty fight and just bad crap now beefing a class doent cause the same controversy and is the same amount of work. Theres a saying dont work harder work smarter perhaps we should apply that logic here just a thought .

[Deathgrowl]

@Deathgrowl

Obviously, the use of the word unplayable constitutes hyperbole, as they aren't literally unplayable, just very lacklustre relative to everything else, as you've said.

Some of those examples are the ones I had in mind too. Shadowdancer and blackguard are very strong, but only as splashes, which does not make the classes bad, but limits variance in character-making, which is also a bad thing imo. When you begin to see "stock" splashes like fighter 4; shadowdancer 3; blackguard 3-4; swashbuckler 5 (moving the ability from level 3 to 5 is more of a hindrance than a boon; what I think everyone would have preferred was a boost throughout all of its levels); etc, you should think that something may not be right with certain classes.

Fighter4 is mainly a thing for monks and archers, and maybe some other classes. But that doesn't mean that fighter8 or fighter12 has lost any of its significance. Indeed, even fighter18.

I didn't know that blackflame zealot had been buffed, but that was another one on my mind, along with warrior of darkness.

Warrior of Darkness and Anointed Knight are two of the most powerful high bab classes we have. Bonus damage, 3/- dr stacking with epic dr (for a total of 12/- if you go that route), free toughness, blindfight and alertness, two bonus feats that can be used for epic feats, 4+int skill points, great skill sets.

This may be slightly controvesial, but Red Wizard isn't great when compared to its PnP implementation, since, in NwN2, the class lacks its strongest ability, namely Circle Magic, which surely must have been the main reason for the hefty penalty it gets. This game retained that penalty but eliminated the best ability. However, as I said, this opinion may be controversial, so feel free to ignore this entire paragraph.

I think we have the circle magic?
https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title ... rd_of_Thay

Circle Magic: Red Wizards gain access to the Circle Magic feats.

https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Casting_Forms

Circle Magic
Type of Feat: Spellcasting
Prerequisites: Magical Discovery* or Red Wizard
Benefit:
You are able to participate in a Circle Magic ritual and lend your strength to empower any spells the circle leader casts. While participating you may not cast spells yourself or engage in any actions besides moving.
[User note: Magical Discovery implies a roleplayed event after which the DM awarded this feat]
Use: Selected

I've already alluded to it above, but does anyone actually play single-class swashbucklers or, at any rate, swashbucklers with a majority of character levels spent in that class?

I know at least one person who plays a swashbuckler16/duelist7/weaponmaster7 that I made for them. It's a very cool build.

[Theodore01]

I know at least one person who plays a swashbuckler16/duelist7/weaponmaster7 that I made for them. It's a very cool build.

I have a dual kukri Swashbuckler (20), Weapon Master (7), Shadowdancer (3) - but i don't enjoy him much -
mostly because his draining abilities do not have any vfx-effect and i cannot tell at all, if it did cripple any monster or not

[Ariexedes]

Ah druids have no problem hitting things at all warded they have the exact same ab as rogues and pure monks. They just have 20 ac higher 300 hp more 15 on each save higher and can be immune to all with magic . I also have a dragon and he deals 60 to 100 in meele a round . About 30 dmg hit and hit most things 2 to 3 times a round .

sounds like I must stop being a casual, and focus on pvp and tweaking my druid to be optimized build to go out and murder players now if your getting those numbers. Shame I just enjoy Rping her out of shape, and well don't even have it. Spent my levels being a wolf, then a dire wolf, elemental, then a winter wolf. Don't even have dragon yet now that am thinking about it still at lvl 27 cuz I was short one wisdom score. least I can take it at 28 with the feat to give me dragon.

Mean if someone can confirm, don't you do more dmg to pve mobs who stand there unwarded then pvp players (who don't stand there casters and can ac hit like 50+) anyway ?

Share me your build and gear so I know how to build!

[Bobthehero]

I have a swashbubkcler that I intend to end being a S17/R3/D10

[Yumi]

just throwing this out there, buuuut can't we just nerf all max damage across the board? Cap it to like 100? Maybe that way we could lower some of the insane monster stats and DMs wouldn't need to keep super buffing bosses

[Mursey]

Yes please

This is exactly the sort of thing the server needs.

[Deathgrowl]

I have a swashbubkcler that I intend to end being a S17/R3/D10

What is rogue for? You're losing out on weakening critical and Swashbuckler gets evasion at 16 now!

[Bobthehero]

If memory serves it was for skills points and skills in general.

[chad878262]

While I can understand some of the hurt feelings and disagreement with the direction taken by staff I'd just like to throw out a few things.

1. As Deathgrowl stated, Anointed Knight and Warrior of Darkness are frankly the best overall warrior PRCs on the server. Easy to qualify for, do not lose any feat progression (3 feats free + 2 feats at level 9/10 = 5 feats) and the bonus feats can be epic feats making them better for warrior builds than the feats you can take with Divine Champion (unless going for epic DR).

2. Capping damage is a terrible balance idea. All that would do is shoehorn players in to building for Attack Bonus in order to land more hits. On top of this, a class like Warlock that only gets 1 APR with their blast would not do well. Meanwhile a R19/M3/A8 would still do ~70 damage per sneak attack with 5 attacks out of HiPS to unload on enemies for high damage and minimal risk. Finally blaster mages which are already dreadful would become (even more) completely useless if capped at 100 damage from a spell. Simply put, none of the changes which have been made have anything to do with damage per hit and capping it would be a poor idea with awful results.

3. The Divine Power change is not a good idea in my opinion, but nor is it going to make Favored Souls or Clerics that focus on it's use "weak". All it does is essentially take away 1 attack per round (which would be BAB -25 and thus more likely to miss) and makes such characters unable to benefit from grouping with others who can buff the party. Assuming +8 from Divine Power, +3 Divine Favor, +1 Bless, +1 Aid, +5 GMW +1 Aid +1 Battletide you have reached the +20 AB cap. So partying up with a Bard, Mage or what-have-you will not benefit your AB any further, unless you have a Bard and Fighter in the same party and the bard uses Legionaire's March I guess, which essentially just puts you back at having the effects that Divine Power used to provide. Any change that actually makes partying up with others LESS rewarding is a bad change IMO which is why I wouldn't agree to this specific change, but it is not nearly as big a hit as it's being made out to be.

4. Dragon Druids are very strong, certainly. However, they really are no stronger than a well built divine gish, STR Bard 26/R4 or of course a DC Wizard or many other builds. Comparing them to "Tier 2" classes/builds is of course going to make them look ridiculous, but when compared to divine gish, STR bard or other tier 1 builds (even with nerfs) they are roughly equal footing.

5. Monks, good rogue builds and good melee builds are all tier 2 (and you can even make a tier 1 monk). They are solid, fun builds and do not need buffed.

All in all I think the changes could have used quite a bit more thought on what the goal was and how to implement (if at all), but it's not like the overall ranking of the base classes has changed at all with any of the stuff being put in. Like has been so often said in the past, wait until it's in game and try it out. The vast majority of cases very little difference will be seen with the changes that are being implemented.

Also, hi everyone...Hope ya'll are having fun in game even while warring on the forums!

[wurdpass]

Also, hi everyone...Hope ya'll are having fun in game even while warring on the forums!

Quoted for wholesomeness

[cosmic ray]

@Deathgrowl

Warrior of Darkness and Anointed Knight are two of the most powerful high bab classes we have. Bonus damage, 3/- dr stacking with epic dr (for a total of 12/- if you go that route), free toughness, blindfight and alertness, two bonus feats that can be used for epic feats, 4+int skill points, great skill sets.

I don't remember the class being that good outside of single player with Kaedrin's stuff in my override. Are you sure that it wasn't improved at some point on BGtSCC? Or perhaps I dreamt about it having been nerfed here.

[Deathgrowl]

It is nerfed compared to Kaedrin's, yes. Kaedrin's also gets 10+hd spell resistance (so 40 at level 30) and bonus feat at 4 and 6 (if I recall correctly), as well as higher damage from the anoint weapon. Kaedrin's variant is ridiculously powerful.

[Theodore01]

It was nerfed, but it's still good