Maybe add Hellfire Warlock deity requirements?

[Moltrazahn]

So... I've played a lot of warlocks.

I love the class, and it's mechanics.
However... It is also one of the classes that suffer a bit from lack of prestige classes.
Enter, the Hellfire Warlock.
An awesome PrC for the good old lock, with few drawbacks.

That is, however... till you get to the Lore.

The hellfire warlocks are a secretive group of specialist warlocks who have mastered hellfire, a dangerous energy found only in the Nine Hells. By tapping into this infernal power, these characters learn to infuse their eldritch blasts and magic items that they wield with the dark power of hellfire.

- Nwn2 wikia.

Hellfire Warlocks in the World

"The offering of hellfire is yet one more way the fiends have worked their claws into our world. Each mortal who thinks to master this fell power is yet one more fool offering his soul to the Lord of the Eighth."

-- Alód the Traveler, planeshifter

- Fiendish Codex II.

Now, if you know anything of Mephistopheles... you know that he is the creator of Hellfire, and... guards it's secrets fiercely.

"...To make matters worse, he has mastered the essence of Hell, channeling it into a foul destructive energy called hellfire. With such tools at his disposal, it seems Mephistopheles will one day make good on his promise to rule in Asmodeus’s stead. Thankfully, Mephistopheles does not exert the same influence on the Prime Material Plane. Many mortals confuse him and Asmodeus, believing they are one in the same. This frustrates Mephistopheles to no end; above all, he wants to be worshiped as a god. Still, he has a number of small cults that revere him as the god of hellfire."

...Recently the Lord of the Eighth has been devoting most of his time and incredible amounts of energy to his pet project, that of mastering and experimenting with Hellfire, a new form of magical fire with new and interesting properties. This obsession with the enterprise has caused a virtual upending of Cania's power structure, with the Ice Devils that once stood at its peak forced to migrate to the colder mountains on the fringes of Cania.

Mephistopheles' goal is the expansion of his material plane cult by offering mastery of Hellfire as an incentive. However, the expansion is taking a toll on his soul-harvesting efforts, and he is being forced to borrow divine energy from the other archdukes, particularly Dispater and Levistus at an alarming rate. Mephistopheles is risking much in his gamble on Hellfire, and if it pays off, his mortal cult will be larger and more popular than any other archduke's, including Asmodeus'"

What I am saying is... And not to make life more difficult to warlocks... but;
Would it not make sense if Hellfire warlock required you to worship Mephistopheles as a deity?
(and yes I am aware this would require mephy to be introduced as a choice)



(Not to mention when you keep meeting other characters having the super-secret-hard-to-master-magic-of-hell-itself >.>)

[DM Gargoyle]

Currently in our time line Mephisto is not at the point of him being a deity ((I was an major hellfie warlock and love the lore that follows the Nine.)) If anything hellfie warlocks should have a LawfulEvil alignment restriction is what I would suggest. (If it doesnt already) most people that use hell fire should know the lore of it and realized using such harms the cast as well at the enemy. Teo PC if I remember rped has horrible scarred from using hellfire.

((Disclaimer: this is my player belief not a DM ruling))

[Moltrazahn]

I see your point, yet... would argue that the individual could still worship Mephi as their "deity".
Granted that they are considered a cultist, rather than proper god/goddess worshipper.

I see it kinda like the Shadow Adept or Storm Lord.
Yes they both worship greater deities... yet in concept, they worship power, and gain some benefits of it.

Where the mechanics of hellfire are never really explained in details, one could imagine that; if you serve the cult and it's worship, the secret of how to harness the power of hell, through your infernal pact, you can unlock this power.

However, being mortal, and even that Mephi himself doesn't really have full grasp of Hellfire, it makes sense that us mortals harm us-selves majorly in its usage.

[TheKai]

Why not add ‘True Believer’ as a PRC requirement as a middle ground?

[DM Gargoyle]

Adding True believer would steal a feat from a lot of builds that need that feat. Adding a deity that could not be taken by divine classes would be a better option.

[Deathgrowl]

Adding mephistopheles as a worship requirement to hellfire warlock seems like a good idea to me!

Warlock isn't a divine class and a hellfire warlock shouldn't be a priest of anything (conflict of interest - why should Mephistopheles grant a priest of some god his hellfire?). So the patron being an actual deity doesn't matter for a hellfire warlock.

Indeed, you can worship Fingal Darius if you want, so long as you're not a divine class. As so many do, lets be honest! Doesn't make Fingal any more a god.

[The Whistler]

(conflict of interest - why should Mephistopheles grant a priest of some god his hellfire?)

because he's reaping the sucker's soul in the end ? what does he care ?

warlock pacts are mercenary acts IMO, only in the rarest cases spiritual. you give up your soul in exchange for power. and while you can use that power to exalt mephistopheles or champion his cause in the prime, most of the time you'll be using it for some pretty selfish stuff. I mean you already signed away your eternal soul to that douchebag and he expects worship on top of that ?

fiendish codex II even leaves a clause open for good aligned hfw. I don't see them worshiping an archfiend.

that being said, let's introduce archfiends as selectable deities PLEASE

[DM Gargoyle]

Mephiato does end up with a following so powerful that he does end up with clerics who are granted power like any other god from Mephiato and Azmodus. But like I said I dont believe that is in our time line yet.

[Mallore]

As I recall In FR you actually don’t need to be a full on god to grant divine power to priests. Example would be Orcus. Mechanically however if I recall the heights level spell is level 3 for these fow powers.... Anyways more important

Bring on Mephistopheles!! We require shar for shadow adept, totally make Mephy for hellfire. .

He totally fit into our current lore. Heck be a great time for him to show up!! The lore can totally be fan wanked to make sense for anyone who might need it.

[Deathgrowl]

(conflict of interest - why should Mephistopheles grant a priest of some god his hellfire?)

because he's reaping the sucker's soul in the end ? what does he care ?

Lets turn it around then! Why would a god show favour to someone whose soul belongs to Mephistopheles?

[Svabodnik]

While in the original lore good ol' ruler of the 8th may take an interest in the character of a full-time campaign themselves, given DM fiat, he's got plenty of subordinates that may extend on the deal for him in the absence. In fact, I'm sure plenty of dark powers would want a sliver of a willing and potent mortal's soul in exchange for granting them additional power. Not quite sure how that would separate this particular class from others that have otherwise grown more abstract from their original origins in PnP (i.e. Darkfire Disciple).

Following the Wiki notes, the class abilities of Hellfire Warlock do not switch the damage of the blast to actual Hellfire (half profane, half fire damage). What you do get is increased damage on a blasts in exchange for CON, devil-summoning, retaliatory blasts on attacks, and protections against Fire damage. Such may be offered by any lord of the Nine Hells, and many of their non-devil allies (such as a plethora of LE deities). The only lore-involved ability that ties it to the LE alignment is the summoning.

EDIT: Just to make sure I didn't muck anything up, went back to reference my Book of Vile Darkness for Hellfire. Seems that rather than profane/fire damage split, the actual Hellfire spell line is simply fire damage that cannot be resisted by normal measures (Protection/resistances/immunities). Still has nothing to do with what the class offers, though, considering TN wizards can summon LE summons.

[The Whistler]

(conflict of interest - why should Mephistopheles grant a priest of some god his hellfire?)

because he's reaping the sucker's soul in the end ? what does he care ?

Lets turn it around then! Why would a god show favour to someone whose soul belongs to Mephistopheles?

why wouldn't they ? as long as their worldly servants still perform their duties as is expected of them, that is.

I don't think we'll be seeing clerics of torm multiclassed into hfw any time soon if that's what you're worried about.

[Mallore]

Question.

Can a warlock currently multi class into cleric or other divine caster?

[The Whistler]

yes. technically deities can grant access to eldritch magic themselves

[blowuup]

To represent worshipping Mephistopheles, the correct selection should be "No Deity." He's not a god, and does not grant divine favors or powers. Outsiders granting divine powers is a variant rule, so it would have to be added by the developers, available for all. So you're technically faithless.

Making a pact should theoretically make you "lawful evil" but that's never specified in the rules of becoming a warlock, that is part of making a "Faustian Pact" from FCII. Becoming a warlock has never been exactly clear or implied in that section.

Per class description, Hellfire can be accidentally discovered through experimentation. Warlock pacts can also be transferred through bloodline. In both of these scenarios, neither worshipping Mephistopheles or being lawful evil is a requirement for using Hellfire.

All in all Fiendish Codex II is not Forgotten Realms lore, so it's best left for the DMs to decide of they want to implement any of the above.