Game Balance

[Grendunor]

I think we should all be forced to play commoners. Meta will be UMD items grenades
Excellent suggestion Kiran

[Young Werther]

None of these nerfs limit a strong build's solo ability, imo. If that really is the concern...

[KOPOJIbPAKOB]

About weaponmasters who suck/are overpowered, whatever you like. I once dealt 600 dmg per first flurry in pvp (not even first round, because there were no other rounds!). WM/FB combo is a glasscannon and probably does the biggest overall damage per round of all archetypes, but!

1) Defense. This archetype has the WORST armor class in game (archetype-wise), if you don't have hips or such things, well... good luck. upd: forgot to mention, saves are trash too and imho it's even bigger weak spot than bad ac.
2) Crit immunity. Long story short, against crit immune creatures, you're simply a barbarian with garbage ac / saves and smaller ab.

Not sure why I'm writing that, just saw a few comments about WMers and decided to share opinion.

[Bobthehero]

If we stick to PvE, they're amazing in a party, but on their own they'll struggle when there 3-4 enemies.

[Steve]

Its crazy when a bunch of long timers reject party play becuase ...

You really should learn to read better, mate. In two previous posts I specifically wrote that party play, currently, can allow for non-PB-munchkin-whatever builds so that everyone can experience the Up-to-Epic content, and more importantly, role-play in the classic D&D style.

I’ll stand by my posts, especially because you haven’t provided any information that is grounded in reality, to dissuade the Divine Power change (either). If I thought providing screenshots would change your mind,I would do it. But I think at this point you simply want to bitch and don’t care to reason.

[The Whistler]

2) Crit immunity. Long story short, against crit immune creatures, you're simply a barbarian with garbage ac / saves and smaller ab.

[citation needed]

[Wyatt]

A gentle reminder to please stop the personal back and forth and keep the topic about game balance. You can easily make your point without calling out each other about his/her previous posts. If you want to do the back and forth thing, please take it to PM's.

Thank you.

[Tekill]

I think I got about 2 seconds to sneak in a last word before things get locked

A lot of things are going to be opinion. Mechanics are definately one of them. And like arses we all have have one.

There are changes made and/or not made that I agree with and some that I am irritated with.

I can see a logic with a lot of the changes made. And I think if the most recent changes derails things enough, efforts will be made to rebalance.

It how it works.

This is not a democracy. It is a group of men and woman getting together and creating a game they hope folk will like. If you like it, great. If you don't then it seems that same group wishes you all the best as you play other games.

I personally have a lot of mixed feeling about balance issues, and the game in general. But the pro's outweight the con's - so I stick around.

Its a good game -even when I dont agree.

[Calen]

I think I got about 2 seconds to sneak in a last word before things get locked

A lot of things are going to be opinion. Mechanics are definately one of them. And like arses we all have have one.

There are changes made and/or not made that I agree with and some that I am irritated with.

I can see a logic with a lot of the changes made. And I think if the most recent changes derails things enough, efforts will be made to rebalance.

It how it works.

This is not a democracy. It is a group of men and woman getting together and creating a game they hope folk will like. If you like it, great. If you don't then it seems that same group wishes you all the best as you play other games.

I personally have a lot of mixed feeling about balance issues, and the game in general. But the pro's outweight the con's - so I stick around.

Its a good game -even when I dont agree.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts , shame to see the topic ends up like this.
Not a bad thing to have people discussing changes, just not in a way that it gets the topic locked down.

[Hoihe]

The new Divine Power doesn't reduce cleric/FvS soloing ability at all.

I can solo my way through Greypeaks (minus the balor, provided I get through the fire elementals before the general without a fight) with the following stats:

AB: 21 BAB + 1 EP + 5 GMW + 7 dex + 2 Heroism = 35, if I'm going all in, make that +8 dex and +2 GH = 38. If Really, really going all in, add Haste, Aid, Bless for 41.

Damage: 1d6 + 16 int + 5 GMW + 1d6 precision = 23 min, 33 max.

AC: 10 + 4 dodge + 3 tumble + 3 deflect + 4 armor + 7 dex + 5 int +3 natural + 3 shield +1 One Weapon = 43 AC (45 vs current, +6 at -6 AB) with MI/displacement if needed. If going all in, add 2 armor, 1 shield, 1 dex, 2 natural for 49 (51 vs current, +6 at -6 AB). Again, has MI/displacement if needed.

Look at that mighty AB of 35/38.

Cleric gets 42 for free, without any str bonus. Will have 22 str minimum for EDM and DP boosts it to 28 for +9 str bonus for an altogether 51 AB. *3 for PA

Damage before any spells except for DP and GMW using a 1-handing morningstar: 1d8 + 9 * 1.5 + 3 PA = 17 minimum, 24 maximum. (this is without accounting for DM/EDM or other dmg boosting spells). With UMD, add 1d8 fire.

AC? Without clickies or crossclassing to get tumble 3 or something like that or using UMD (13 is easily reachable for even clerics!)
AC 10 + 1 tumble + 3 dex + 8 MFP (Nowhere as rare as it was back in 2011-15, so can assume you have) + 5 armour + 3 natural + 4 dodge + 5 deflect + 2 heavy shield + 5 shield EB = 47 AC. You got Extended Regenerate for stuff that can hit you. If you UMD up, add Mirror image/displacement.



If my stats can do it, where is the cleric hindered? And I can't even build clerics and don't know their spells, so it'd be even stronger than I described here.

[Maecius]

I'm locking this thread until the moderators can go through it and talk with the folks who are breaking forum rules.