Would like some advice on rogue builds

[chad878262]

've ran around with luck of heroes + 2 weapon defense but starting to feel that expertise + deadly defense might be better when in a group.
Landing a hit isn't a problem while buffed and truth be told 1 save more or less isn't making a big difference compared to the damage DF is giving.

Deadly Defense is not a great feat for a Rogue build. You are giving up 3 Attack Bonus in order to gain 3 AC (which you have already indicated you don't feel is needed) and 2.5 average damage per hit (~10 damage if you land 4 sneak attacks). Consider that if you currently have no issue landing 4 attacks that is a good thing and if you miss even one of those attacks due to CE activation (required for DD to work) you are losing all of your sneak damage on that attack (which I assure you is more than ~10 damage). As an example at level 30:

W/out CE: AB in first flurry might be something like 35/30/25/20
Against an enemy with 38 AC, you get to remove DEX and Dodge so maybe that becomes ~30 AC. You will always hit your first two sneak attacks except on a roll of a 1. Your 3rd attack requires a roll of 5 or higher (20% miss chance) and your last roll requires a 10 or higher (45% miss chance).
w/ CE your AB becomes 32/27/22/17. Thus your first attack will always hit, your 2nd attack has a 15% miss chance, 3rd attack has a 35% miss chance and last attack has 60% miss chance. Thus you go with where you are now where most of the time you hit all four (and at a minimum you are landing 3) to a situation where most often you will miss at least 1 and sometimes 2 sneak attacks in the flurry.

Now, I personally do not take Luck of Hero's and definitely NEVER take two weapon defense on a sneak attack based build. You're better off going for SF:Hide/SF:Move Silently or some other feat.

How much search/disable device would be advised to take?
Ran into a 80 DC lock earlier thus thinking about maxing out lockpicking just out of curiosity.

In general I feel modified 20 Search is plenty unless you plan to be able to find Player traps in which case you need to max. I also personally would max disable device, but some would arguge ~20-25 is usually enough. As to lock picking, you either go minimal (~10 adjusted points) to handle 95%+ of the locks or you have to max and get equipment/consumables to handle the few ~80-99 DC locks on the server. Your call.

[Calen]

I'll max disable device and lockpicking in that case, just wanted to have enough search to spot the npc traps.
With the phantom build it feels like you got 2 feats to waste if you ignore luck of heroes.

Blinding strike would be great but phantoms cannot pick it, Arterial Strike looks fun but has a long cd.
Aside from that it really boils down to flavour with those two feats, weapon focus gives a little boost I suppose.

Never thought I would come to the point I have feats to waste.

[chad878262]

I'll max disable device and lockpicking in that case, just wanted to have enough search to spot the npc traps.
With the phantom build it feels like you got 2 feats to waste if you ignore luck of heroes.

Blinding strike would be great but phantoms cannot pick it, Arterial Strike looks fun but has a long cd.
Aside from that it really boils down to flavour with those two feats, weapon focus gives a little boost I suppose.

Never thought I would come to the point I have feats to waste.

Understand that having a little wiggleroom is not a bad thing and it really depends on what you are wanting to do...

- If you PvP then Blindfight is probably needed, but if not you can skip it.
- SF: hide/MS is always worthy of selection on any sneak.
- Luck of Hero's is not a bad 'nothing else looks interesting' pick
- Backstab, if you can work it right, can help to ensure all your sneak attacks land.
- Arterial Strike is a bit of a waste to be honest due to mob DR cancelling out bleed damage. Also note that 2 bleed damage / round is less than the ~3.5 average damage you would do from your sneak attack and (in my opinion) the goal of a sneak attack based character is to kill the target in the first flurry of the first round... Any feat that takes you further away from accomplishing that goal is a trap.
- Low Blow is a neat trick if you will generally be playing with a Party (but due to the requirements it's a bit less fun if you aren't playing a shorty race)
- Flensing Strike is one I thought of building around many times. Might be something you would enjoy if you're going to dual wield kama's.
- Finally, Staggering Strike was recently pointed out to me as an option by Nathan and it's marginally interesting. Since you'll be landing a sneak attack basically every round you can always slow the recipient for that round with all penalties associated therein (lower AC, attack penalties, etc.)

I believe Blinding Strike being rogue only is intentional due to the fact that phantoms have the ability to spam hide in plainsight + ghost step. However, I may be wrong and you're welcome to submit a request to have it opened up for selection by Phantom's. Never know unless you ask!

[Calen]

Tried staggering strike on the test server and it looked like it had a cast time, a bit like the zealots death touch.
Since it is 100% RCR I'll try it out on another toon to see how it works.
Love the ghoststep , cheesy as it is.
Forgot all about blind fight, not doing pvp atm but it might be something.

The monk kama build is for some other time, I don't think I have the stomach to level to 30 with out hips.
Though rogues ghetto hips is alright in some areas.

[chad878262]

The monk kama build is for some other time, I don't think I have the stomach to level to 30 with out hips.
Though rogues ghetto hips is alright in some areas.

R19/M3/A8 can get HiPS at 13 no problem and is only marginally below R16/NWN3/M3/A8 that get's HiPS at 30. The only difference is R19 gets an extra epic feat (because Rogue bonus feats can be any feat they qualify for) while the Bodyguard version gets faster movement and +1 BAB. As I said, the difference is relatively negligible.