Fiery Fist Duration

[Aurali]

There is a discrepancy between the in-game description of fiery fist and the wiki description as far as duration is concerned. The in-game duration states 1/2 monk level + 1/2 wisdom modifier. The wiki duration is 1+wisdom modifier. I wanted to verify which one is supposed to be correct. I picked it based on the wiki description. I took it as a sacred fist without monk levels. So with a wis mod of 6, it only lasts 3 rounds. A little disappointing. If the duration is supposed to be the 1/2 monk 1/2 wis, would it be possible to add 1/2 sacred fist levels to the total? Or perhaps it uses the 1+wis mod if one doesn’t have monk levels similar to the way stunning fist has uses not based on monk levels.

[Aurali]

Any decision on this? Is the fiery fist duration tied to monk levels or just wisdom?

[Nemni]

The in-game description is right and the wiki was wrong. Number of rounds equal to 1/2 your monk level + 1/2 your Wisdom modifier is correct. I'm skeptical about adding sacred fist levels to that since that's already quite a strong class.

[chad878262]

Well, sacred fist is actually *NOT* a strong class anymore thanks to the way that Divine Power works now. It *used* to be strong, but now? Let's consider:

M20/C3/SF7 - Divine Power is no longer very good for this build... Assuming you are CL 13 (Practiced Spell Caster) you get +3 Attack Bonus, but since you can still get Intuitive Attack and Blazing Aura it's not terrible, just far worse than before the change. In this case, adding SF would be a clear power up, though to be honest it would still be a waste of a feat to grab fiery fist when you have blazing aura.

M6/C9/H6/SF9 - This one is in worse shape... CL29, +8 AB from Divine Power which is fine (just not as good as +8 BAB obviously), but damage is pretty low, more of a caster than a 'true' sacred fist. Fiery Fist changing to include SF levels wouldn't be that big a deal since they can't use Intuitive Attack and even combining the levels would only equate to 15 so +7 to fiery fist duration. Since they can't get Blazing Aura it's honestly just a nice benefit to help a build that isn't a great caster and isn't a great melee build. the bonus damage still won't make damage great, but will push it closer to mediocre.

Any other builds would range in between, but the point when I look at this is it would make sense to simply make it so that Sacred Fist levels are used if no Monk levels exist or if Monk levels are less than Sacred Fist levels... So for example Number of rounds equal to 1/2 your monk OR SACRED FIST level + 1/2 your Wisdom modifier. In this manner a Sacred Fist without Monk levels or with 6 monk levels or whatever could still get + 4 or 5 duration from 8-10 levels of Sacred Fist.

Sacred Fist is really the build that was most impacted by the divine power change and this would be a simple improvement to the types of builds that aren't really very good anyway. It would basically satisfy the request without improving the sacred fist builds that don't really need a buff.

[Nemni]

It's still a class with high bab, 8/10 spell progression, bonus armor, bonus speed, uncanny dodge, 4 skill points, decent skill selection etc. And they have their own "fiery fist like" feat for free.
Anyway, I'm not saying this change would be the worst thing in the world, I just don't personally see that it's needed.

[chad878262]

It's still a class with high bab, 8/10 spell progression, bonus armor, bonus speed, uncanny dodge, 4 skill points, decent skill selection etc.

which either requires Monk for 3 levels, or a Cleric to take Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist as well as needing Combat Casting and Practiced caster either way... Meanwhile Eldritch Knight requires Martial Weapons and has 9/10 progression. So basically it requires 2 feats and costs an additional caster level to get bonus armor/bonus speed, uncanny dodge and a couple extra skill points. Not saying it's here or there, but for comparison sake I wouldn't say it gets 'too much' for what it costs.

And they have their own "fiery fist like" feat for free.

2 minutes per day for 8 levels...As I outlined, the specifics of the build Aurali mentioned ain't a powerbuild and there is a middle-ground to help the type of build she is discussing without empowering monk heavy Sacred Fists.

Anyway, I'm not saying this change would be the worst thing in the world, I just don't personally see that it's needed.

Understood, that is why I outlined in my response that really the approach I would recommend is to only give 1/2 Sacred Fist levels when Monk levels are not in the build or are less than SF levels... Those builds will not have blazing aura or Intuitive Attack and thus are either suffering in regards to Attack Bonus or AC (or both) in comparison to the builds you are worried about. They are essentially builds that have gone against the grain for RP reasons and thus giving them access to a bit more damage would not be terrible. While perhaps it isn't strictly 'needed' it does encourage breaking from the standard mold to build a PC for RP reasons even if it isn't the 'best' choice.