Cavestalker + Bane of Enemies

[Zymth]

I'm trying the offline module that uses a lot of the BGTSCC and found you can go 18 ranger 3 cavestalker to pick up bane of enemies at 21. Is this the case on BG:TSCC?

[Rain]

Yes that is current cavestalker.

[Theodore01]

What - where is this documented or is this a bug ???

[Zymth]

Great, this makes Cavestalker viable. Given that Cavestalker is as far as I can tell primarily an attempt to fix ranger, it seems unwise to delay bane of enemies by 5 levels as part of the fix. This is really good news for underdark rangers; we should add it to the wiki.

[Theodore01]

It looks like someone is adding all the good things to this class .....
That's pretty much for a PRC with no investment as a requirement.

[YourMoveHolyMan]

But requires dark vision. :'(

[Rain]

But requires dark vision. :'(

Tiefling >:)

[Zymth]

It looks like someone is adding all the good things to this class .....
That's pretty much for a PRC with no investment as a requirement.

To me that's a matter of perspective. I find that the prestige class is an attempt to fix a problem inherent to the default ranger, so to me we're not adding new power, but restoring lost power. I've said elsewhere that I think the prestige class shouldn't exist and that all rangers should get HIPS in all wilderness areas, forested, cavernous, or otherwise.

As a bit of an aside, underdark rangers still aren't fixed, even with this class, because we have no Tree Stride. It's clear, however, that the developers have had to flag certain areas as cavernous to make Cavestalker work. Couldn't we modify Tree Stride or add another spell that mimics it in caves, using those pre-existing flags? I vote for calling it Mushroom Trip. I'll settle for Stone Stride as a distant second.

[Theodore01]

Does Protective Ward: (+1 AC, +2 AC if you have 24 ranger levels or more.) also count with something like ra18, cst6 ?

[Zymth]

Does Protective Ward: (+1 AC, +2 AC if you have 24 ranger levels or more.) also count with something like ra18, cst6 ?

Great question, I'll test with the offline module though there's no guaranteeing they both use the same mechanic, as the offline module deviates from BGTSCC in some ways. It did, however, alert me to this bane of enemies issue, so hopefully it continues to be consistent with respect to my findings on protective ward.

I'll also add that you can go 17 ranger, 3 cavestalker, then 1 ranger to get bane of enemies, for whatever that's worth. You don't need to be taking cavestalker at 21. At least, that's what happens in the offline tests.

edit: the module I'm using doesn't have protective ward. I would err on the side off 'no,' with respect to your question. The lack of documentation for these things acts as a barrier to entry for new players imo.

[Zymth]

Unfortunately it seems the favored enemy you choose from Cavestalker doesn't get the damage bonuses that result from the accumulation of your previous favored enemies.

i.e. If you have taken FE: elf, FE: undead, FE: outsider as a ranger, then take FE: orc as a cavestalker, you only get 1 pt of damage vs orcs.

One fix would be granting improved favored enemy vs the cavestalker FEs once the user is high enough level as a work-around.

i.e. if I'm a level 17 ranger, 3 cavestalker, I should be doing +5 damage vs my FEs, so one thing that could be done is that any favored enemies I take with cavestalker will get improved favored enemy at level 20 (or 25, or 30) so that the damage is brought up to where the rest are. Alternatively, improved favored enemy could be added to the list of cavestalker bonus feats.

Bane of enemies however does work against the cavestalker FE, so if you do take a FE as cavestalker maybe pick a favored enemy you care a little less about but still want to be good against.

Here's yet another idea. Adding expertise to the cavestalker's list of bonus feats favors one of the two ranger paths. Why not add protective ward instead?

[Deathgrowl]

Given that Cavestalker is as far as I can tell primarily an attempt to fix ranger

... What?

[Zymth]

Yes that is current cavestalker.

This is not current cavestalker. I'm currently 17 ranger 3 cavestalker and I can not take bane of enemies on either a ranger or cavestalker level, bumping Cavestalker back down to being a completely meh choice for rangers. I don't know why we would deny ranger cavestalkers this feat at 21. As it stands, Cavestalker is a ranger nerf that causes you to get all your capstone ranger achievements 4 levels later, lose a favored enemy, and lose a ranger bonus feat, all so you can regain lost features you should have had in the first place.

Nothing is properly flagged as cavernous either. The illithid mines (deep) are cavernous, but the ones leading to them aren't, the Bregan D'aerthe guild house is cavernous, but south of the tar pits is not. It's extremely frustrating to invest a hundred hours into something only to find out nothing works properly.

[Rain]

Yes that is current cavestalker.

This is not current cavestalker. I'm currently 17 ranger 3 cavestalker and I can not take bane of enemies on either a ranger or cavestalker level, bumping Cavestalker back down to being a completely meh choice for rangers. I don't know why we would deny ranger cavestalkers this feat at 21. As it stands, Cavestalker is a ranger nerf that causes you to get all your capstone ranger achievements 3 levels later, lose a favored enemy, and lose a ranger bonus feat, all so you can regain lost features you should have had in the first place.

Nothing is properly flagged as cavernous either. The illithid mines (deep) are cavernous, but the ones leading to them aren't, the Bregan D'aerthe guild house is cavernous, but south of the tar pits is not. It's extremely frustrating to invest a hundred hours into something only to find out nothing works properly.

Are you sure you couldn't take it? If that's the case that's a change from the last time I had my cave-stalker because I had option on mine when I played one back in the day.

[Zymth]

Very sure.