Mage shifter build

[Calen]

When I look at the build it appears pretty straight forward.
Just pump int and go 10 EK/10 DS 10 Wizard and enjoy.
Though are there any feats that might be worth picking aside from mage feats or other ways to make the build effective?
The warlock version appears quite good, is the mage version equal to that?

[jeminizero]

Take note that when you are in outsider form, banishment (and probably Dismissal) will insta-kill you.

[MistyMountain]

Hey man, You miss out on most of the benefits of the Augment Form feat with the build you are describing, since they are full bab for the most part. Seems like arcane trickster would be good because you get the bonus to bab from augment form and sneaks are usable while shifted. Also hips and ICE are good things to get since you can use them in shifted form. But maybe not ICE since I don't think you can really tank a boss while shifted... might be better to also get thaumaturge, then you can have summons tank while you sneak attack. something like: rogue 4/arcane trickster 10/wizard 11/thaumaturge 5

[Steve]

Take note that when you are in outsider form, banishment (and probably Dismissal) will insta-kill you.

Banishment has a Will save and checks Spell Resistance. Very few mobs will or are even setup with this Spell. In PC vs PC combat, a prepared and skilled Player could succeed...but then, just use a non-outsider form against them!

Dispel is a bigger issue to the split you listed. If you can squeeze in Arch Mage and Augment Form, you'll have lower BAB but CL 30+.

Shapechange has a great choice of forms, a few far more useful than others. Mainly, the Polymorphing Mage is indestructible, but damage output sucks eggs.

[Calen]

The idea was to have poly morph build with a high AB , though came up with something else.
I have a specific RP build in mind and was thinking of 10PM 5 Thauma 5 wizard 10EK.
The 10 EK levels would function as a bit of extra damage though could be replaced by 10 wizard for 3 more feats as the main purpose is tanking in most cases.

[MistyMountain]

I don't believe the PM ac stacks with shifter forms...

[Calen]

It doesn't, it is just for RP. I'll see if the crit immunity carries over to some forms.

[DaloLorn]

Hey man, You miss out on most of the benefits of the Augment Form feat with the build you are describing, since they are full bab for the most part. Seems like arcane trickster would be good because you get the bonus to bab from augment form and sneaks are usable while shifted. Also hips and ICE are good things to get since you can use them in shifted form. But maybe not ICE since I don't think you can really tank a boss while shifted... might be better to also get thaumaturge, then you can have summons tank while you sneak attack. something like: rogue 4/arcane trickster 10/wizard 11/thaumaturge 5

If I'm not mistaken, Augment Form is only available to a handful of PrCs, none of which you have listed. Furthermore, you don't really need Augment Form if you already have (mostly) high BAB.

[MistyMountain]

Nope, its a general feat you can take without the PrCs. you just need transmutation spell focus. The PrCs allow taking it as a bonus. Anyway its a good feat if you can take advantage of it, and you can't take full advantage of it if you are after full bab. Although if you take wizard 10 and the rest full bab you still get 2 bab from the feat (which would also give him an extra attack), which is decent.

[MistyMountain]

At least, thats how it was last time I relevelled my mage around the last 100% RCR, don't remember which class I actually took augment form with... I suppose it isn't available to all classes, but a general feat to wizardly classes...?

[metaquad4]

The idea was to have poly morph build with a high AB , though came up with something else.
I have a specific RP build in mind and was thinking of 10PM 5 Thauma 5 wizard 10EK.
The 10 EK levels would function as a bit of extra damage though could be replaced by 10 wizard for 3 more feats as the main purpose is tanking in most cases.

No PM in this build, since it is pretty useless to the build as a whole (RP aside), but this one is pretty good for that purpose:

http://nwn2db.com/build/?295106

https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Polymorphing

AC =
3 (Tumble) + 4 (Epic Spell Focus) + 6 (IMA) + 5 (SS) + 4 (Deflecion Item Merge) + 4 (Shield/Shades) + 2 (Cat's Grace) + 1 (Dodge) + 1 (Haste)
= 30 + Form Nat AC + Form DEX AC
Ex.
Dragon: 30 + 21 + 5 = 56 AC

AB =
26 (BAB) + 2 (Bull's STR or Cat's Grace) + 4 (+4 Weapon) + 4 (GH) + 1 (Haste)
= 37 AB + Form STR (DEX if ranged) - 4 if Form Has No Weapon
Ex.
Dragon: 37 + 11 - 4 = 44 AB

Damage =
2 (Bull's STR) + 4 (+4 Weapon)
= 6 + Form "Dmg" - 4 if Form Has No Weapon
Ex.
Dragon: 6 + 2d6+12 - 4 = 2d6 + 14 = Avg. 21/Hit

Full Summoning and Polymorphing with all 6 (7 w/ haste) attacks. Buffing up is a real pain (you need to buff yourself and 2 summons) though.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?273641

This one is a bit more streamlined. 27 BAB, and 30 CL. No summoning, but that can be a blessing as you can use those slots to shift out, fire off a spell or two, then re-shift. Instead of using them for summoning/buffing summons (which tends to eat all your slots).

Empower can be swapped with Maximize, depending on one's preferences.

[DaloLorn]

If I'm not mistaken, those damage calculations are incorrect for Shapechange forms. Each form comes either without a weapon, or with a +4/+5 weapon already accounted for in the damage field.

As such, only Bull's Strength (or an equivalent item buff) is of any relevance here, providing a +2 boost to the form's stated damage output.

[Calen]

Sadly the build with Thaumaturge at level 6 is impossible duo to the 6 diplomacy requirement. At best you can do is 10 wizard 5 Thau 10 EK 5 DS.
Another build I'm toying around with is a simple 10PM 5Thaum/15 Wizard build. The idea behind it is that your shape shifting form would allow you to tank while the summons DPS. Having a medium bab allows you to do some damage on your own with out using spells.
You'll have 4-5 epic spells at your disposal in case you would desire and an open feat for improved familiar.
The Palemaster immunity to crit would carry over to some forms, but ultimately it would just be RP flavor.

The only thing that bothers me is how effective these forms are with a medium bab on this server and if the 10 wizard/5 Thaum/10 EK/5 DS might be a more effective build.

[Rudolph]

Brief questions re. those shifter builds: does Northlander Hewing work with them? Or does it get deactivated when you shift?

[DaloLorn]

Brief questions re. those shifter builds: does Northlander Hewing work with them? Or does it get deactivated when you shift?

Pretty sure it deactivates - or it should, at least. You definitely can't activate it while shifted.