Crafting

[lum]

Well, thank you for that update. So it's safe to say it won be for the near future.

I wondered about this for possible future rp plots, but also cause I'm looking to rcr one of my retired level 30's for a few smaller shifts on her ability scores before maybe re-introducing her to the server, so I hoped to learn if there be either new/other feats required for this future crafting system, and if there would be a 100% rcr moment cause of implementation of said crafting system.

But since it seems I will have time to level her from 23-ish back to 30...

And yes, I understand setting up crafting is a huge and time consuming thing, especially on a server like BG which seems to like to balance everything as accurate and fair as possible.

So, good luck you all, and thumbs up!

-Lum

[Steve]

Here’s what I think is an unspoken issue related to a Crafting/Enchanting System: Crafting and RCR (100% or not, but especially so).

You must realize there are probably 50+ Players currently active (more or less) with one, maybe two, unused/throw away Level 30 PCs.

So, Crafting/Enchanting will come online and with it a 100% RCR period and then BOOM!!!, there will be a glut of high epic custom Crafting going on.

So while I personally feel tha Crafting and/or Enchanting would allow for a ton of new fun for Players on BGTSCC to explore, the flip side is the skewed new paradigm of instant Epic Crafters “arriving” on the Sword Coast, and the immediate effect it will have on what little “realistic” IG economy that exists (if it exists at all!).

So perhaps what makes better sense is not to put Crafting/Enchanting in the hands of PCs, but like the Random Goods NPCs that exist, put C/E in/on an NPC, where like in JEGs, our Toons can request and PAYOUTTHEFRICKINNOSE for small scale additions/removals to Items that already exist on the Server, or will exist once the RIG drops them.

How about that scenario?

[lum]

You are right about that, Steve, even though in my case it would be about Juniper, a character that already exists for some years and whom I from the very beginning gave all the existing nwn2 crafting feats, plus the skills for crafting, without even being able to use them since the server never did and still doesn't support those! But I merely took them for rp reasons, hoping that it be appreciated rp wise, and there be perhaps rp scenarios where a dm could demand for such 'talents' in order for my pc to achieve this or that. And yes, hoping there be something one day I could actually mechanically do something with such.

But I do understand this concern, and likely the server would indeed find suddenly epic crafters 'flooding' the place. A thought which might concern other players who play crafting toons since a while too. When I started Juniper some years ago, I think I ran only into one other Techsmith for example for a long time. I felt so unique, lol!
I bet there would be suddenly a lot of gondians when such a crafting system would be installed...

Hmmm

[Agog_Fr]

Steve's anticipation is correct.

As I said it before, I am personally very reluctant to craft because it will greatly increase the gap between farmers players and RP players who have neither the time nor the desire to farm.

Farmers already have top-level PCs, well-made builds, and superior equipment. The technical gap is already, very important.

The craft will not call any RP, but just more trading, calculation, time invested, grinding. It's not RP all that.

The RP is exploration, intrigue, mysteries, not calculations of grocer.

It is necessary to return to the base: the RP, it is: active players, and good DMs. And the technical systems must be at the service of that (like the Disguise feature for example), and not against that.

[lum]

I wouldn be opposed however to items of 'lesser concern', items such crafters could make that actually assist lower levels (non epic). I do know I sold a lot of bombs and alchemical fires as Juniper. It was a nice rp element, and it gave lower characters an edge, albeit at a gold cost. More customized lowbie items could be nice too. Like for example when someone seeks to combine two things in one item, albeit at a lower character level. For example an item that combines +2AC or +3AC with +2dexterity, and that this can for example either be on a ring, on an amulet, or gloves. So nothing of an epic scale like +4's.
I think it's also important to see how the ingredients can be obtained, and I think it's not a bad idea if such were handed out through dm events.

[Steve]

...hoping that it be appreciated rp wise,

I, for one, totally appreciate that. And I'd assume here that with your previous RP, having an actual crafting system would finally allow you to play out your Character as they were always meant to be played! How about that?!?

And in some ways it would seem unfair to those having RP'd a crafter/enchanter for years to allofasudden be competing with Johnny Forging-Epic-Gear, who just so happened upon the BG scene.

Now, I'll just plug away on it again, that if an NPC was created that a) took a lot of coin for customization; b) required also ingredients that may or may not be "mined" depending on Survival/Lore: engineering Skills/abilities; c) would count reductions in cost/use or improve output/options based on Crafting Feats taken by said PC—thus still creating a very valuable use to be a PC "crafter;" d) allow DMs to STILL "play" that NPC for even higher rewards, depending on the RP situation (creating an actual IG resource for awards, in place of just dropping a chest on the ground after an Event, etc.); e) be always available online for those in different Timezones; f–z)etc. etc....this would give Players what they want to experience on BGTSCC and also keep the "operating system" of Crafting easily tweek-a-ble by the Admins/Staff, for whatever future may come.

Since some much of an NPC like I'm trying to describe already exists in JEGs, I'd hope most of the work to implement is a copy/paste job with a bunch of tweaking and lots of testing. One can dream!!!

[Gorirah]

There will not necessarily be any instant high level crafters, again it depends on the system detail. Where crafting levels are gained from crafting xp, everyone will start off as first level in their respective crafts, regardless of character level. A lot also depends on how many crafts a character can maintain and potentially their skill points and ability bonuses.
The idea of NPC master craftsmen who charge significant profit for their work still stands as a good one, but regardless of the craft system. It would keep prices in check, it would enable those who do not have characters that fit the crafting roleplay, and prevent the underdark or other area-restricted groups from being excluded or disadvantaged.


Edit:
I am assuming here that the crafting system is separated from the enchanting system.

[Agog_Fr]

My good friends,

Do not dream.

Whether the crafting system is based on feats, skills, XP craft, or PRCs crafters, it will be the same: it will bring a big advantage to players who have time to invest !

I have a known server where crafter needed to invest almost all of his feats in the craft industry.

AND only the Main PCS could be craftmen. As a result, there were very few craftmen, because very few players were ready for such a sacrifice of technical power!

But on BGTSCC, it does not work like that.

When it comes to craft bonuses, the bonuses are lower than the droppable, and in this case, NO ONE will craft.

Either they are superior to the droppable, and in this case it will be the course to armament (more connection time, more blah around farming, but more real RP).

[Gorirah]

When it comes to craft bonuses, the bonuses are lower than the droppable, and in this case, NO ONE will craft.

Umm.. I would craft. Again, item enchanting is potentially a separate matter.

[Maecius]

The crafting system being worked on by the Dev who's working it would be more for mundane crafting than for enchanting. At least at the beginning. Though enchanting would become a part of it, certainly, as that is something you'd normally associate with crafting.

But at least at first the plan would be for this to generate RP, not top-tier gear. Possibly DMs would support dedicated crafters with item requests, which they do not currently support at all, but that would be up to them if/once crafting was introduced.

The intention at the moment is not for crafters to be competitive with loot or with the epic shops. Not without some sort of DM supported quest line, anyway.

[Blackman D]

is it still an instant epic crafter when you have had it for 10 yrs with no system in place?... or is it just instantly useful?

[edmaster]

If a player can't create epic tier weapons/items while being in the Epic Levels, then what's the point of adding it?

[Blackman D]

you wouldnt need to exactly

the point is customization; instead of having an epic rated item that actually has extra stats that you cant even use, you would be able to customize an item that only has stats to augment your characters abilities

a full set of customized gear would be stronger than random "epic" gear with a bunch of stats you dont even use

so the items would be weaker but competitively useful, but therein opens the can of worms with crafting vs drops vs shops and where it should fall in the pecking order, and even tho everyone says on the bottom the potential makes it so people want it to start off suuuuuper weak and then build up... if someone can finish it that is

[lum]

Yes, that is what I earlier meant too, I call it "tailor-made" enchanted/modified items, tailor-made for a specific sort of character or build, with things that are more useful than what some of the most expensive and epic items can offer

I was also thinking of the crafting of rp-ic items, like items that add to the appearance of the character, or handy stuff, like a mobile workbench, an umbrella, smoke bombs with only merely a real smoke effect to escape rpwise, anything really that is achievable within the limits of the system (which I dont know myself).

On the server where I started rping, people were also able to buy a home, buy furniture at some shop, or adjust some, and then apply it directly in their home ingame, saving it and bam, a customized home interior was made. I've never seen this "technique" on any other server than Dasaria, but I know players liked it a lot.

[krighaur]

I played in one of the french server which Agog mention.

Yes it had a very well developped crafting system, the main problem was that it completely neutralized classes's advantages : for example people laughed at your barb greataxe or fighter 2-handed sword, because their non-combattant class was able to add with craft 2d12 fire + 2d12 sonic damage to their weapons.

Same things for wizard that became completely useless because every body had around 10 wands on them.

The results was that the PC were so powerful (normal damages in the 50-60 were common, and critical in the 200 were also not so rare) that the mobs were largely increased and given some very powerful spells or feat. For example we had a dungeon were every monster had vampiric fest. So if your PC was not well optimized you were useless.

I don't speak of the nightmare for the DM, when some PC were able to oneshot powerful monsters, leading again in an increase of monsters strength and as a result only some powerbuilt PC were able to play the DM events, your normal PC was wiped very early.