TFW your non-optimal 'rp build' always loses PVP

[Druchii]

What I am hearing is that there appears to be some pretty appalling experiences with etiquette on BG. And a lack of imagination with what to do when one engages in pvp as far as the end goal goes. That's a pity, but reinforces my point about remembering the rules and choosing your RP partners with care for this stuff. The rule about Outting is there for a reason and handled IG so not to break immersion and the RP of other groups. As adults the rest is up to both parties to be respectful and mature about it. Dosnt always happen as we all know but thats the unfortunate reality of 'people'.

As i see it, this is not a balanced game. Not in campaign and not in multiplayer and the reasons for it are varied. But what that does is make PvP especially unbalanced. I don't believe NWN was made with PvP at the forefront of developers minds. It also doesn't keep with the PnP nature of the game wherein players were more aligned with each other's interests than not. PvP is there because conflict is inevitable and by playing a computer game you can be sure to expect mechanics to go with. Otherwise why play it and not just pnp on discord right?

Bottom line is if you don't have a character designed with PvP in mind and you don't want to do it. Don't. There's no shame in not wanting to do it. But understand if you PvP with someone you do not know well, the stories being told here are a possibility. Even with people you do know and like it might.

So use the rule. It's there to keep things fun and as fair as possible. It's far more realistic a solution than ever hoping for everyone to not powerbuild or for content creators to make building easily accessible to everyone and completely balanced.

[Winterborne]

I'm not a huge fan of PvP but I don't shy away from it. I don't mind losing a lethal PvP because the victor gets basically no input other than whether you are left alive or not. If they try to say you should give them items or let them disfigure you and you don't want to, you just say no.

If they try and make you feel bad about saying no, then the fact they don't care about your wishes and comfort as a player means they aren't worth worrying about. Not the kind of folk I'd want to interact with in the future.

A conflict should be about the story as a collaborative effort both sides are writing, not about flexing consequences on the loser.

[Druchii]

I'm not a huge fan of PvP but I don't shy away from it. I don't mind losing a lethal PvP because the victor gets basically no input other than whether you are left alive or not. If they try to say you should give them items or let them disfigure you and you don't want to, you just say no.

If they try and make you feel bad about saying no, then the fact they don't care about your wishes and comfort as a player means they aren't worth worrying about. Not the kind of folk I'd want to interact with in the future.

A conflict should be about the story as a collaborative effort both sides are writing, not about flexing consequences on the loser.

+1

[Deathgrowl]

PvP in this game isn't good anyways. The game is far too clunky for that sort of gameplay to get interesting.

But there's a difference between "non-optimal" builds and absolutely terrible builds. You can play effective RP builds. You don't have to sacrifice your RP viability for PvE or PvP viability. Personally I never ever build with PvP in mind, and I refuse to help people who want PvP builds (I know how to build for it, though), but I do prefer to have my characters be relatively effective in PvE. This is (at least partially) a combat game, after all.

Most people who are good at PvP say that it's more about understanding the engine and how to use the character than it is about having the best optimised build. While I'm not any expert at PvP, but a competent builder, this strikes me as quite true. Because the same rings true for PvE, just to a lesser extent. If you don't know how to operate your character to its fullest potential, it doesn't matter how great the build is.

That said, it can matter how bad the build is. If there is no oomph behind it at all, one way or another, it doesn't matter how good you are either. So I suppose there's a balance to be pointed out here. This is what I try to do with my own RP/PvE builds. It has to work with my RP concept, but it also must be effective enough for me to enjoy the PvE combat.

If you do need help with builds, there are some very helpful people on the server! I am one of them, but not for PvP builds. I find - personally - that building for PvP is anti-RP. PvP on an RP server, shouldn't be seen as much as a competition to win, to pwn your opponent like it is in FPSes or World of Warcraft battlegrounds and arena. It should be seen as a device that pushes the story one way or another.

And it should always be fun for both parties. If it isn't, someone is approaching it wrong.

[gedweyignasia]

And it should always be fun for both parties. If it isn't, someone is approaching it wrong.

As a hint to those who didn't think of themselves when they read that...

If PvP is only fun if your PC wins, you're one of the players approaching it wrong.

[Hoihe]

And it should always be fun for both parties. If it isn't, someone is approaching it wrong.

As a hint to those who didn't think of themselves when they read that...

If PvP is only fun if your PC wins, you're one of the players approaching it wrong.

Don't mind if I lose. I do mind if someone tries to convince me to lose my character, or make them un-enjoyable to play however.

[Deathgrowl]

And it should always be fun for both parties. If it isn't, someone is approaching it wrong.

As a hint to those who didn't think of themselves when they read that...

If PvP is only fun if your PC wins, you're one of the players approaching it wrong.

The flip side to this, that I actually was mainly referring to, is that when you do win, be a good victor. Especially if you are also the aggressor. Make sure that the loser actually has an enjoyable experience.

[K'yon Oblodra]

I was just thinking of Game of Thrones, where Oberyn Martell beats "The Mountain"... could be something... I mean without the head crushing but the fact that one player might win the fight yet the other win in the end...

[Rask]

I for one, if pvp wasnt highly probable to have Kop's described results, with winner almost always trying to demand consequences that make the character impossible to play (maiming without regen, mental trauma, unfixable death), i would definitely be down for pvp encounters.

I have handed over item/gold before and will happily do it again if someone wants something to show for their victory. Just not stuff that basically goes "welp, i guess i cant play my char anymore."


on topic of builds - one thing i noticed in friendly spars that builds that do well in pve and are kind of reputed for a certain quality (impossible to hit for instance, resilient) become moot in pvp. In pve 50+ AC is enough to avoid all but nat20s even in high epic areas (cept for some bosses). PvP? everyone who melees has 40-45 AB. A character that builfs reputation as unyielding defender in pve/events gets splattered in pvp.

Oh yes. As someone who plays PVE and PVP builds, I have had some that are absolutely nasty. Isra for example, if you couldn't spot her (95 hide), or avoid her ray of frost it was a nearly 1 round kill in every PVP encounter, buffs or no buffs (frost mage.). Her ray of frost did between 150-200 damage empowered, then followed by a quickened second blast and it was game over in every PVP match up I ever had. The only ones I couldn't beat were the ones I couldn't spot.

Was this fun? No, it really wasnt, PVP doesn't really matter. I actually only got into PVP with her maybe 3 times in the 2.5 years I played her. I also though, made a habit of never "killing" anyone I beat in PVP. I always RP'd that they were horribly wounded/unconscious, and I would always send them a /tell telling them that. I've always done this as it just doesnt make sense otherwise. I mean if I was slitting throats/beheading them whatever and then I am walking around the next day and there they are, alive and well, it is very immersion breaking. So I ALWAYS RP'd that I had only mortally wounded anyone I defeated. I also always respected an RP out.

Honestly if I were the one making rules on this server, i'd make this a rule. That the victor in PVP can't maim/dismember/behead or otherwise do an action that would make the persons character unplayable unless they have permission from the losing party. It just makes things more immersive.

[Arcane]

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[Hoihe]

I didn't expect this to generate debate but I am glad it did.

I have come to the conclusion though that I hate pvp.

I don't even go looking for it and my character can't exactly back out from a fight as it goes against his religion.

The outcome is thus always the same, he gets beaten and called a chump etc (words to that affect), I burn through all my expensive / rare potions in mere moment and there's no real way to get 'revenge.'

The strongest build always wins - round 2 would just be the same.

I don't care that he loses - all the time though?

Just unsatisfying to watch and boring if that's the case.

Thinking I might put in Vortak's description:

'PVE only, tailor your RP accordingly'

Something like that.

One thing i might advise is perhaps doing it text based with a 1/3 mosifier for rolled damage if you do wish to have fights. even if you still lose, at least it was entertaining.