Reserve Feat "trick" for Blade/Deathsinger

[Steve]

I remember once good ol' Valefort mentioning something about how a Reserve Feat can be used in conjunction with Song of Celerity, for the Blade/Deathsinger.

Is this really a thing? Or am I just imagining how awesome this would be.

How does one do it, exactly (since it can't be tested out in JEGs)?

Cheers.

[Ewe]

I believe this is it?

http://nwn2db.com/build/?263695

[Tsidkenu]

What an excellent use of a reserve feat!

[Steve]

Cheers, Ewe.

But I’m still blanking on how it all works, mechanically? Valefort writes “...with Song of Celerity...” but I’m wondering if that is a grammar mistake and he meant “along with...” S of C.

A Reserve Feat needs a spell in memory of Type. So, does one cast the Reserve Feat onto...the Song of Celerity icon? And the code properly reads: Spell (and Level for damage) —>> Reserve Feat —>> Song of Celerity.

And thus once per round, every round on a successful hit, the Reserve Feat applies to damage (no need to reapply the Reserve Feat).

As explanation, this “trick” is much like a Warlock’s Hideous Blow.

[chad878262]

Song of Celerity is an 'activated feat' so you click it to tell NWN2 that you want to apply a spell to your weapon. After you click on SoC, you click the reserve feat and then target your weapon. Viola, you now have applied the reserve feat to your weapon.

Now, while this is something you CAN do, it is quite underwhelming to be honest. For Invisible Needle you get what, ~25 extra damage on your first hit? Well, a Longsword BladeSinger with 14 STR (18 after Bulls) does ~30 damage per hit or so, thus the reserve feat has given you essentially one extra hit in round one.

In my (humble?) opinion, especially with how feat starved BS is, reserve feats are simply not a good selection. Consider the damage increase from using NH (Longsword) or Deadly Defense (Rapier) and over time they will increase damage far more than a one shot reserve feat, especially if taking on multiple enemies. Finally, for my money every BS should take Extend and Empower spell, Extend is not only for buffs, but also clouds for when you have a large number of enemies and Empower is great for clouds as well as your damage spells that can be applied to weapon.

Now, obviously not everyone cares about maximizing their builds potential, but I actually did fool around with a Death Singer that had Invisible Needle for "flavor" but found it so severely underwhelming that I didn't stick with it very long and RCR'd to change feats. An extra 25 damage once per battle is simply not worth the ~10 seconds it takes to activate Song of Celerity, click on the reserve feat, and then click on your weapon. The true power of Blade Singer is defense, damage over time (clouds) and Nova damage (I really enjoyed Greater Ruin, personally). However, the downside to them is the feat requirements make them exceedingly difficult to customize...you definitely are giving something up any time you are making something to be different from others. For example if you want a Bladesinger or DeathSinger that includes Archmage or Shadow Dancer (i.e. W6/EK10/BS10/AM4 or W6/EK10/DS10/SD4) you can do that, but it eats up your 2 feats you'll have available once your prerequisites for EK and BS are met. By the same token, spending a feat on a reserve gives you that bit of 'customization' in the never ending application of SoC before every battle without rest, but the impact of that benefit is pretty useless.

All this is just my thoughts, but hopefully the first line explains what you originally asked, with regards to how you utilize reserve feats alongside song of celerity. happy gaming mate!

[Steve]

Thanks Chad ol boy! Now the mechanics are clear.

I agree with you as well, that a 1-time per battle Reserve Feat application isn’t worth it. That is why I was hoping it was more like Hideous Blow, staying applies for 1-time per round application.

Otherwise, a build would be far better off, over time, to have Weapon Specialization, or Deadly Defense.

Cheers.

[Tsidkenu]

Having RPed somewhat with Invoker's Deathsinger drow, Song of Celerity was something he used to apply between battles, not during. It was merely a means of supplying a slight boost to first-round DPS but was, overall, quite an underwhelming ability.

Having said that, I do wonder about more interesting usage of the feat: putting Finger of Death or Hold Monster/Chaos on your weapon and then hitting someone with it in PvP could be quite the surprise

[Sputnik]

Could reserve feats be made to apply every round with SoC?
That would be pretty neat, without being overpowered.

[Steve]

Having RPed somewhat with Invoker's Deathsinger drow, Song of Celerity was something he used to apply between battles, not during. It was merely a means of supplying a slight boost to first-round DPS but was, overall, quite an underwhelming ability.

Having said that, I do wonder about more interesting usage of the feat: putting Finger of Death or Hold Monster/Chaos on your weapon and then hitting someone with it in PvP could be quite the surprise

If SoC did have a “one shot” possibility, that WOULD be cool. But in order to have a competent melee ‘Singer, you can’t seem to build for high-ish AB and DCs.

[Tsidkenu]

Except you can just build for DC, dump a quickened True Strike and guarantee your hits for 6 seconds

[Steve]

Except you can just build for DC, dump a quickened True Strike and guarantee your hits for 6 seconds

Theading the needle, Tsid...threading the needle.

Sounds like a grinders nightmare build!

[chad878262]

The strength of xS is the ability to have decent DCs alongside good damage and AC. It is actually what makes them a "Tier 2" PRC/build option. With 26 INT, 30 with Foxes Cunning you can end up with mid-50's or higher AC, DCs only 3-4 points lower than a more standard DC wizard build, damage of around ~30 per hit and still have approx. 40 AB (25 BAB + 4 (STR) + 5 (GMW) + 4 (GH) + 1 (WF) = 39 without haste, any UMD or any other feats). Bladesinger offensively is seen as the weak point, but really is comparable once you add in the 'nova' damage in round one (either from save or die FoD, from greater ruin, or IGMS or whatever with SoC), Cloud damage (wall of fire, cloudkill, etc.) and ability everyone has on BG with wands and additional buffs.

I personally can't see any dev looking at this and saying they need a buff, even if it's 'only' the ability to have ~25 extra damage on the first hit every round by applying reserve feat in the same manner as hideous blow. That said, I don't play anymore and don't have any say, so if you think it'd be fun, tell Zanniej et. al. to look in to it. To be quite honest it is really not needed. IMO the class is loads of fun to play as is and I still think it's the best custom PRC design to date for BG. There is just enough ability to customize (while giving something up) to make it interesting while still having an 'easy/vanilla' build option that competes (and is actually overall better than) any crazy/niche builds (i.e. W6/X4/xS10/EK10 where 4 is Blood Magus, Archmage, Shadow Dancer, etc.)

[Steve]

Primarily, I was just hopeful for a click-and-use use of those Reserve Feats, applied with as little effort possible. I don’t think 9d4 extra per round would make a PrC or build overpowered. It’s only 18 dmg average.

If truly a Bladesinger has near-equal DCs with a DC mage build—though I doubt it!—than yes, a one shot FoD for a Boss is pretty spectacular...but as all know, Bosses have inflated Saves and too often Steadfast as well.

One shot Celerity when the name of the game is GRINDING, misses the point! Lol.

I’d argue then that one is still better off mechanically with a Wizard/Dragonslayer/Eldritch Knight with Auto Still and IPA and high STR AND Steadfast. That’ll give better balance to AC, AB and DMG. And still has flavor!

[Hoihe]

Primarily, I was just hopeful for a click-and-use use of those Reserve Feats, applied with as little effort possible. I don’t think 9d4 extra per round would make a PrC or build overpowered. It’s only 18 dmg average.

If truly a Bladesinger has near-equal DCs with a DC mage build—though I doubt it!—than yes, a one shot FoD for a Boss is pretty spectacular...but as all know, Bosses have inflated Saves and too often Steadfast as well.

One shot Celerity when the name of the game is GRINDING, misses the point! Lol.

I’d argue then that one is still better off mechanically with a Wizard/Dragonslayer/Eldritch Knight with Auto Still and IPA and high STR AND Steadfast. That’ll give better balance to AC, AB and DMG. And still has flavor!

My friend plays a wiz10/bs10/ek10 bladesinger with 20 str and 20 int. Got floored almost always during the winding water events and could barely participate. Had AC that only reached 50ish when maximally buffed which meant she barely had spells left for combat, especially with the need for spares due to breachea. DC is laughable as you dont really have any free feats to spare on focus spells.


Compared to my wiz15/swash5/du7/sd3, that build was tortorous to play and almost completely useless in open/mass dm events. Compare the above build barely reaching 50 ac fully buffed, only getting around 36ish ab and dmg around 20 to sitting on 52 ac unbuffed, 30-36 ab depending on mod3 and dmg around 30-40, and since it doesnt need buffs, actually being able to prepare combat spells. And DC is like 2-3 points lower.


Bladesinger sucks. A build without any gish classes outperforms it in nearly every situation except for access to 9th circle/epic spells, which isnt that much of a loss. Bladesinger sucks so hard my friend decided to retire her bladesinger as it was painful to play. Later on brought her back by dropping bladesinger entirely for sake of being playable.

[K'yon Oblodra]

Mmh Hoihe I find your argument a bit weird, so the reason the class is terrible is that this friend of yours got breached in a DM event?

I don't want to be overly critical but if you play a gish character under the more standard circumstances, like the usual areas you'll find them to be strong, thanks to their BAB and all those buffs you usually breeze through must things.

That you get in trouble when dispelled well that's only natural, what is a wizard's defense doing once dispelled?

I just had a DM event where a Lich dispelled my Shadow Shield and shield wards... That of course sucked especially cause I do not tend to have extras of those left over but I think it's a bit of a mood point to base a balance discussion around that.

Though I completely agree that arcane casters are vastly underpowered XD... Yes that's a joke, or is it XD