ranger with master crossbow sniper?

[Ahku]

Hey all,

i was thinking of trying a pure ranger build with a high dex and master crossbow sniper feat(s).
(focusing on giant and dragon favored enemies)

has anyone tried this before?

can the rangers 'ranged combat style' work with crossbows?

[KOPOJIbPAKOB]

Truthiness's character (Fenix) is the most known Ranger crossbow sniper and it seems to perform really well too. As the player said though, without special belt with crossbow feats (forgot how it's called) this build is a bit subpar compared to just Ranger with bow.

[bono_bob]

Hey all,

i was thinking of trying a pure ranger build with a high dex and master crossbow sniper feat(s).
(focusing on giant and dragon favored enemies)

has anyone tried this before?

can the rangers 'ranged combat style' work with crossbows?

I think you are better off with pure fighter with all the plus damage and ab feats exclusive to a fighter. An epic fighter can also take epic dexterity as bonus feats.

Apparently there is a hardcode issue where you can't exceed 3 attscks per round (so i have heard, not confirmed) that seriously limits pure ab crossbow style. So i feel you might as well do a rogue/asssasin with hips and max sneak damagw to get a crossbow working.

[Truthiness]

A pure ranger using a crossbow can definitely work. Fenix's initial build was ranger 26/fighter 4 and he performed decently (this was before any epic items were put in). However, KOPO has it right in that without the crossbow belt (Belted Quiver of Supreme Skill), using a crossbow on almost any build is subpar to other options. Without the crossbow belt, you're spending at least two extra feats over another ranged weapon for the same build, and given that the other ranged weapons (especially longbows) scale much better with added damage (through sneak attacks/favored enemy bonuses/fighter feats/etc), it's not a good tradeoff at all. The crossbow belt can make it worth it, though.

Crossbows can get up to 3 attacks normally with both Rapid Reload and Rapid Shot activated. If you are hasted with a crossbow, you get 4 attacks, which is very important. I would not go a sneak attack heavy build on a crossbow, unless you specifically want to see one or two big numbers. The reason for this is that crossbows only get one attack in the first flurry of attacks, two if hasted. So if you're attacking from hips, then you are at most seeing two sneak attacks, and that's only when you're hasted. With a longbow or other ranged weapons, you can get up to 7 attacks, which means 3 attacks in the first flurry (26 BAB + Rapid Shot, or 21 BAB + Rapid Shot + Haste), which makes sneak damage all the more valuable.

Generally, given the way ranged characters have to fight when solo (attacking and then running), having the majority of your damage frontloaded into the first flurry as you would get with other ranged weapons rather than spread out along the entire round (or first two flurries) allows you to have a much more mobile playstyle, making crossbows more suited for group play than solo, as you can actually attack the entire round a lot of times. If you were always playing in a group, a sneak focused crossbow build could even be good, as you can flank to get the sneak dice. I wouldn't recommend going pure fighter as a crossbow build unless you only intend to play in groups, as your survivability won't be that great.

I do think I went off on a tangent. >.> With the crossbow belt AND the new epic crossbows, crossbows are probably on par with longbows (ranger/assassin or other sneak builds are still favored towards longbow, of course), with different situations favoring the different weapons. And a ranger with a crossbow can definitely work, however I would definitely recommend getting the Belted Quiver of Supreme Skill and probably invest into animal companion feats (if you're going pure ranger), as having something else there to soak the hits would allow for you to get off the majority of your damage.

[AlfarinIcebreaker]

I would recommend a pure Ranger build, aiming to end at 30 Dexterity +4 bonus from Cat's grace. That would result in +18 damage from Crossbow Sniper, Master. Also, make sure to pick up Blinding Speed and Epic Animal Companion (and Natural Bond, pre-epic).

[Ahku]

I have to ask, what does the 'Belted Quiver of Supreme Skill' do?

I also have to be realistic and assume that i'll never see one of those 'Belted Quiver of Supreme Skill' as this is the first time i've even heard of it...

What feats would you recommend for the Ranger (master crossbow sniper) without the special item?

Feat gathering is a bit confusing with the combat-style feats a ranger gets automatically (ranged)...


Thanks!

[Theodore01]

It's a somewhat rare Belt - quiver of supreme skill: dex+3, icrit xbows, rreload

[Ahku]

Okay, i think i got it figured out:

Heavy Crossbow Feats:

1st - Weapon Focus - Heavy crossbow
1st - Crossbow Sniper

? - Point Blank Shot
? - Heavy Crossbow Sniper Master
? - Improved Critical - Heavy Crossbow

Automatically gained feats:
At 2nd level, Rapid Shot feat
At 6th level, Manyshot feat
At 11th level, Improved Rapid Shot feat
At 21st level, One Shot feat

Then focus on improved favored enemy feats?...

[Truthiness]

If you're not using the Belted Quiver, then you need Rapid Reload as well. Getting Natural Bond and Extend Spell is also a good idea. You can drop Point Blank Shot if you're too feat starved, as there are easily obtainable bracers with the feat. As for epic feats, I would suggest getting Epic Animal Companion and Bane of Enemies, Blinding Speed as well if you can fit it in. The rest of the epic feats should be just Great Dexterity feats, to get 30~ base dexterity (or 26~ if you can't get that).

If you want just a bit of extra AC, Protective Ward adds 1 ac, 2 if you have 24+ ranger levels, making it extremely efficient for AC with that many ranger levels.

[Steve]

And why not Ranger 21 / Assassin 9? Still with Crossbow Sniper feat line?

[Ahku]

Does anyone know when the next 'It doesn't Suck to RCR' window is open?

[LevelSix_SYSTEM]

If I could proffer a suggestion to get 'around' the hard coding issue capping crossbows at 3 attacks, maybe the Devs could add a Feat along the lines of ones that sacrifice attacks per round for a bonus to damage per hit? Could make it an Epic Feat if it would be a bit OP at lower levels once Improved Rapid Shot is taken?
Basically thinking of something similar to the Feat: Athkatlan Triparite