Malice wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:11 am
Wouldn't it still be a fairly versatile build? You have ench, illu and necro with fairly high DCs. Ok maybe the epics in PVE are going to be rough (you can still use summons or just go with parties), but in general and PVP would be fairly doable. No?
yes it would. Pale Master adds a fair bit of defense and a very nice summon. Changes to Necromancy school mean your extra undead summons are also quite strong, and as relates to PvP quicken lesser spell breach followed by Wail of the Banshee is most likely going to result in most PC's dying in one round. Even the folks that have high fort saves and Steadfast are fairly easy to deal with by jumping over to solipsism. If they also have high will saves you can always drop grease/cloudkill and just start launching IGMS at them while your summons keep them at bay (since cloudkill won't effect your undead). The key here is that it is actually PaleMaster that makes the build doable. The problem with most high DC casters is a lack of defensive options. This is solved by adding in PaleMaster or Shadow Dancer, or by ensuring your build has various defensive options.
Finally, in PvP any well built wizard is going to be difficult for most others to handle IF the PLAYER is skilled at how to pvp with a Wizard. In most cases I have found that PvP is far more about player skill than building. Only when skill is roughly equal does build become important.
Malice wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:11 am
Wouldn't it still be a fairly versatile build? You have ench, illu and necro with fairly high DCs. Ok maybe the epics in PVE are going to be rough (you can still use summons or just go with parties), but in general and PVP would be fairly doable. No?
yes it would. Pale Master adds a fair bit of defense and a very nice summon. Changes to Necromancy school mean your extra undead summons are also quite strong, and as relates to PvP quicken lesser spell breach followed by Wail of the Banshee is most likely going to result in most PC's dying in one round. Even the folks that have high fort saves and Steadfast are fairly easy to deal with by jumping over to solipsism. If they also have high will saves you can always drop grease/cloudkill and just start launching IGMS at them while your summons keep them at bay (since cloudkill won't effect your undead). The key here is that it is actually PaleMaster that makes the build doable. The problem with most high DC casters is a lack of defensive options. This is solved by adding in PaleMaster or Shadow Dancer, or by ensuring your build has various defensive options.
Finally, in PvP any well built wizard is going to be difficult for most others to handle IF the PLAYER is skilled at how to pvp with a Wizard. In most cases I have found that PvP is far more about player skill than building. Only when skill is roughly equal does build become important.
Thanks!
Do you think the Archmage PRC is worth it? I was thinking that with something like 11W/9BM/10SD you would basically just lose 1 DC and 3 CL but gain 2 free feats + 1 epic and the 8 and 9 level BM bonus which are nice (the 10d10 ability and +2con).
I am very puzzled about Archmage, I never get if it's really worth it
Malice wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:30 pm
Thanks!
Do you think the Archmage PRC is worth it? I was thinking that with something like 11W/9BM/10SD you would basically just lose 1 DC and 3 CL but gain 2 free feats + 1 epic and the 8 and 9 level BM bonus which are nice (the 10d10 ability and +2con).
I am very puzzled about Archmage, I never get if it's really worth it
SD (ShadowDancer) is not a caster progression class, so I am assuming you meant Shadow Adept...
Archmage does not have NEARLY the RP repercussions of Shadow Adept... Shar has a TON of lore associated to her and her followers and you have to be able to filter through Shar of 1e (server timeline) vs. later editions. Some (most) do not want to deal with the level of commitment to RP as a Sharran. There are multiple wizard PRCs, but the benefit of Archmage is limited to no RP concerns to go along with the increase in mechanical power.
Malice wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:30 pm
Thanks!
Do you think the Archmage PRC is worth it? I was thinking that with something like 11W/9BM/10SD you would basically just lose 1 DC and 3 CL but gain 2 free feats + 1 epic and the 8 and 9 level BM bonus which are nice (the 10d10 ability and +2con).
I am very puzzled about Archmage, I never get if it's really worth it
SD (ShadowDancer) is not a caster progression class, so I am assuming you meant Shadow Adept...
Archmage does not have NEARLY the RP repercussions of Shadow Adept... Shar has a TON of lore associated to her and her followers and you have to be able to filter through Shar of 1e (server timeline) vs. later editions. Some (most) do not want to deal with the level of commitment to RP as a Sharran. There are multiple wizard PRCs, but the benefit of Archmage is limited to no RP concerns to go along with the increase in mechanical power.
Yea no, assuming everything's fine with RPing a shadow adept, I meant.
I am still wondering if AM is a worthy addition to the build (with SA and/or BM incluced). I was interested in your opinion since you seem to be the expert on casters
Charraj wrote: ↑Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:27 am
Just messed around in JEGS. I know it's out of date and doesn't work perfectly, but it's the best tool I've got at my disposal right now.
If JEGS is any indicator, I suspect SLA DCs do not include Spellcasting Prodigy or ANY epic bonus. It doesn't matter whether or not your epic bonus should be boosted by Archmage Spellpower. No epic bonus at all is included in a SLA's DC calculation.
My calculations below (note that my toon has 32 CL: 26 CL +4 from Practiced Spellcaster + 2 from Archmage Spellpower II):
My Wail's DC should be 40:
10 + 13 (INT Mod) + 1 (SCP) + 3 (Spell Focus) + 4 (epic bonus) + 9 = 40
In JEGS, casting Wail normally got me DC 39. I think Spellcasting Prodigy works on normal spellcasting in JEGS, so I am thinking the 1 point loss is because JEGS doesn't factor in Archmage's Spellpower II. So my toon's CL would be just 30, bringing her epic bonus down to +3. See below:
10 + 13 (INT Mod) + 1 (SCP) + 3 (Spell Focus) + 3 (epic bonus) + 9 = 39
Casting Wail as an SLA in JEGS got me DC 35. I know from in-game testing that Spellcasting Prodigy doesn't work on SLA DCs, which costs me 1 DC. The other 4 lost points must be from the epic bonus. So I am pretty sure the SLA's DC calculation is as follows:
10 + 13 (INT Mod) + 3 (Spell Focus) + 9 = 35
Let me know if anyone has any information to the contrary!
Charraj wrote: ↑Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:27 am
Just messed around in JEGS. I know it's out of date and doesn't work perfectly, but it's the best tool I've got at my disposal right now.
If JEGS is any indicator, I suspect SLA DCs do not include Spellcasting Prodigy or ANY epic bonus. It doesn't matter whether or not your epic bonus should be boosted by Archmage Spellpower. No epic bonus at all is included in a SLA's DC calculation.
My calculations below (note that my toon has 32 CL: 26 CL +4 from Practiced Spellcaster + 2 from Archmage Spellpower II):
My Wail's DC should be 40:
10 + 13 (INT Mod) + 1 (SCP) + 3 (Spell Focus) + 4 (epic bonus) + 9 = 40
In JEGS, casting Wail normally got me DC 39. I think Spellcasting Prodigy works on normal spellcasting in JEGS, so I am thinking the 1 point loss is because JEGS doesn't factor in Archmage's Spellpower II. So my toon's CL would be just 30, bringing her epic bonus down to +3. See below:
10 + 13 (INT Mod) + 1 (SCP) + 3 (Spell Focus) + 3 (epic bonus) + 9 = 39
Casting Wail as an SLA in JEGS got me DC 35. I know from in-game testing that Spellcasting Prodigy doesn't work on SLA DCs, which costs me 1 DC. The other 4 lost points must be from the epic bonus. So I am pretty sure the SLA's DC calculation is as follows:
10 + 13 (INT Mod) + 3 (Spell Focus) + 9 = 35
Let me know if anyone has any information to the contrary!
I guess it's better to set SLA on Premonition or Disjunction then, not your DC spells
