Shield Bash Sneak Attack No More?

[qwertyh88]

Hello,

I have been going with a thug rogue and was planning on SNEAK attacking with shield bash after a successful Shield Slam. However, I keep noticing that Shield Bash does not SNEAK attack, which the Wiki and some of the older post in the forums claim.

Has Shield Bash been changed such that it no longer SNEAK attack? Or is this a bug?

As a side not, I have the screenshot of the logs but I guess I don't have access to post attachments?

[tankteddy]

I went ahead and tested this out, it seems something is in fact bugged and not firing properly. Thank you for reporting it. The team is taking a look into the issue.

[chad878262]

I can also confirm this and would like to add to the report that the the "Sneak Attack!" message fires when you shield bash, but the sneak attack damage does not apply.

[zhazz]

I know that Sneak Attack is supposed to work with Shield Bash. What I don't get is how or why?

Reading the wiki for all the classes that grant Sneak Attack it is stated that the Sneak Attack granted by that class is the same as the one Rogues get, which reads:

If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and it increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter.

I find it fully acceptable that a weapon, which is always designed to hurt someone, can be swung or stabbed at a target in such a manner that it hits harder than it otherwise would, given a few moments to find the best spot to strike. Whether that be cracking ribs with a club or mace; stabbing into a lung with a dagger; or slicing an artery with a kukri.

But a shield? I just don't see how. You can bash with a shield, sure. But unless the shield has been specifically modified to have sharp edges or pointy bits, then all you are essentially doing, is hitting an enemy with the flat front of the shield, which means swinging it from your chest and out. Hardly any strength in that, or room to maneuver the shield to hit anything but the main body.
I can, perhaps, find it likely that the shield can be raised above your head, and swung downward to hit with one of its edges for greater effect, like an impromptu blade. But that would remove the shield from in front of you, and have you lose all the protective benefits it offers. Also good luck pulling off such a move with a Tower Shield, which weighs almost 20 pounds!

All that being said, I do agree that the mechanic should be fixed, if it had worked previously, and now doesn't.

I am merely questioning why the mechanic was added in the first place.
It would make much more sense to let a Shield Bash have a chance to Daze the target (knocking air out of their lungs; or the shield's edge hitting their head), or give a free Knockdown attempt (Improved Knockdown on a crit?), since you can use the shield to push and shove with.

[Steve]

I know that Sneak Attack is supposed to work with Shield Bash. What I don't get is how or why?

Shield Slam success causes a Daze effect.

And then, like it says on the BGTSCC Wiki:

When you daze an opponent with your slam he is thrown off-balance, essentialy being flatfooted. Such an opponent is susceptible to sneak attacks and cannot perform any actions.

[zhazz]

I know that Sneak Attack is supposed to work with Shield Bash. What I don't get is how or why?

Shield Slam success causes a Daze effect.

And then, like it says on the BGTSCC Wiki:

When you daze an opponent with your slam he is thrown off-balance, essentialy being flatfooted. Such an opponent is susceptible to sneak attacks and cannot perform any actions.

Yep. And that makes sense. Shield Slam is used to setup a target for Sneak Attacks. Similar to what can be done with Feint.
Perfectly fine to have Shield Slam enable Sneak Attacks from other sources, but it shouldn't benefit from it itself ( see my earlier post as to why ).

[Steve]

Well then, I'd stick to this:

Sneak Attack

If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.

So simply, any shield is used as a tool to hit that vital spot—like your bleeping neck or bashing into the space between knee guard and thigh guard on mail, since dazed and unable to defend it!

[tankteddy]

clearly you have never watched GOT

Sneak attack with a shield
https://youtu.be/QTTd4UFIA8Q?t=134

[qwertyh88]

Going with the GOT video, can we make PRONE enemies also able to be sneak attacked? Makes sense no?

[tankteddy]

They already do (basically) When you are down (below 0 hp) I believe you already get a sneak attack. In the video that is basically what happens then, he continued to bash him. Otherwise, it would be a DM ruling "Called shot" to a "Vital" spot which can Daze someone. (daze allows for Sneak attacks)

[chad878262]

I think he is referring to the fact that knockdown does not proc sneak attacks...

[tankteddy]

Oh I know but Knockdown should not proc sneak attack IMHO

[chad878262]

Oh I know but Knockdown should not proc sneak attack IMHO

Agreed, kd is the nwn version of trip which causes prone. Prone does not proc sneak attacks in pnp either