Chad's analysis as a returning player

[chad878262]

Hiya,

So I've been in game for a few 1-2 hour sessions this week and as I played I was coming up with some thoughts which I thought I would share, for what it's worth... Rather than blast our poor admins Zann-man and Miasmata I am going to put my thoughts here. All are welcome to post their thoughts whether you agree, disagree or are indifferent to what I post. A special note to area builders and developers or anyone who helped to implement a given area or mechanic. Please know that I in no way will be trying to fault your efforts, no implementation is done in a silo and my thoughts are just ways upon which things can be improved.

Ok, enough with the intro... Here are my thoughts and experiences after roughly 3.5-4 hours of total play time.

Graveyard remains the place to go upon logging in with a level 1 PC. Taking my own advice (which I have posted many times) I utilized my 1,000 starting gold to purchase the following:
- Morning Star
- Sling
- 99 bullets
- 2 potions of heroism
- 2 potions of mage armor
- 2 potions of barkskin
- 1 potion of shield
- backpack of the hearty
- a couple potions of cure light wounds...just in case

Now broke, I headed to the graveyard, warded up, and then realized I should have rested since the +1 HP from my 13 CON and the +5 from my backpack hadn't applied and so my level 1 rogue only had 6 HP...super. not wanting to waste my expensive potions, I proceeded to hang back and use my sling to draw undead zombies and skellies to me one at a time. Never got hit so was feeling confident. Honestly could have just drank the potion of mage armor to have 18 AC and probably been fine. At low levels the poor NWN random number generator doesn't show it's flaws because there are so many fewer rolls.

Anywho, I made a circuit slowly around the graveyard to loot. For now steering clear of the crypts and just dealing with the low hanging fruit so to speak. Upon completing a circuit I went and sold my undead parts and loot, didn't find anything worth keeping other than a couple scrolls that may prove useful (much) later when I have the UMD to successfully cast them. On to the bandit caves (after buying more healing supplies of course).

I arrived at the bandit cave feeling pretty good as a level 2 PC with R1/F1, now equipped with a heavy shield and chain shirt purchased from the loot I had made in the graveyard. I proceeded through the bandit cave about halfway before I had to log off, but was surprised to see a sub-boss (yellow colored name) in such a low CR area. I was able to defeat him (with exactly 1 HP left) and collected my loot bag (a tanglefoot bag) before saving my character and logging off so I could log in for work...

The next session I sold the loot from my half run which was enough to buy a couple more of each potion type listed above and round out my healing supplies. I had found a breatplate in the bandit caves so I switched my chain shirt for the breastplate. I also found a +1 natural armor amulet so now my AC is 10 + 5 (BP) + 2 (DEX) + 1 (NA) + 2 (Heavy Shield) +1 (LoH) = 21, 27 when warded with Mage Armor and Barkskin. So anyway, I made a complete circuit off the Bandit Caves, no boss spawns this time and in the end I leveled up to 3 (R2/F1) and now I have Feint (not all that useful at low levels, but you'll see why in a bit). I have added a mundane Longsword to my arsenal and I found a Longbow of Magic +2 (at level 3!) to use for ranged attacks. All in all at this point I have ~6 of each potion, ~10 healing kits, a few cure light potions and a few vigor potions plus some other random stuff, but nothing major. Longbow of Magic was certainly the top find for Clinton thus far.

This morning I decided to challenge myself to the Chiontar Ruins (and was I ever challenged!)... I must say, this is by far my favorite low-level dungeon and for those who've not given it a go I highly recommend it. However, do not go unprepared. 26 AC is the BARE MINIMUM in this place and I was happy with my 27 being solo. Being that stealth is secondary for this PC (what with the metal armor and shield along with mediocre DEX) he rarely is able to sneak up to a spawn and get a first attack, not that sneak damage is much, but the AC malus to the enemy helps. The mobs in this dungeon are pretty brutal having between +5 and +7 AB and occasionally spawning with a haste potion (for +8 AB). Feint was useful here because if I was struggling to hit I could essentially alternate between Feint (w/ +10 bluff thanks to potion of heroism) in one round and attack the next. Oddly this did not always result in a sneak attack, but it usually did. It's likely a matter of when the attack action happens since Feint essentially removes the DEX/Dodge AC for 6 seconds, so with only 1apr you sometimes are too slow on the attack the round after you feint. That said, without it the dungeon would have been far more slow going since even with a potion of heroism my AB is only 2 (BAB) + 3 (STR) + 2 (Hero) = +7.

A few suggestions in my humble opinion:

- Potions are too cheap. I have said it before and I realize many feel these potions are necessary. I agree for solo, but solo should be what you do when you simply cannot find a group. Not to mention that from an IN CHARACTER PERSPECTIVE it makes no sense that the potion sellers can produce and sell potions cheaper than a max level PC Master Alchemist. Mage Armor is ~50-55 gold for a level 1 PC, but to craft it w/out MA is 100 gold. Barkskin is ~125 gold, but should cost 300 to craft. Shield is ~150, but should be 250 and Heroism is ~140 instead of ~500. Now, if you want to keep all of these a bit lower that is fine, but I would argue that at least a ~50% bump in cost (if not 100%) is warranted here.

- Chiontar Ruins needs more loot chests. It is more difficult than Graveyard or Bandits (as it should be as it is CR2.5 iirc), but far less rewarding. The XP is actually MORE in graveyard for level 3 PC because you can kill the mobs faster. It generally took me an average of about 6 or 7 rounds o kill each spawn in the Chiontar ruins so while 50xp is nice, getting ~38 and killing 2-3 mobs in the same time is better. On top of this the Graveyard and Bandit caves both have more loot in a smaller area and thus are faster to acquire. This is of course not to mention the horrible rat problem in the docks that can allow you to level with no risk while earning quick coin. These ruins are so AMAZINGLY done!!! With the rooms, the puzzle, the attention to detail with living area's etc. There are literally already chests in this place that are just visual...making them real chests the PC's can loot would make the area more likely to draw players to it. And I really wish more players went to it because it is a good challenge and a well designed area.

- The traps in Chiontar Ruins, perhaps deserve a look... DC20 reflex saves in a CR 2.5 dungeon is a bit steep. Not that any of the traps are overly dangerous and even with relatively low search skill I spotted all but one of them, but the one I hit was surprising. Most of the spells and grenades the mobs toss are DC 12-14 which is fine, but DC20??? wow. Now, maybe there is no way to change trap DCs, I have no idea, but if there is that might be something to look at lowering to ~15.

- I realize it is because of the puzzle, but having DC50 locks in a CR2.5 area is just mean... These could be lowered to DC30 and a level 3 rogue is still going to need 18 DEX to be able to open them. So if you don't want them opened by level appropriate PCs you could just lower the DC to 35 and still make it near impossible (if the rogue has buffs and/or finds some +6 lockpicks they could possibly still do it). Of course this is not a major deal since, as I said it's about the puzzle

All in all so fare the experience has been quite easy, but I realize that I can't 'unknow' what I learned in my past years of playing. I'm not all that up in arms about how cheap potions are by any means, but it does hurt crafter PCs since it makes heroism wands and/or mage armor wands for lower level PCs (and even higher level ones) worthless. There are so few wands (much less elixirs) that arcane and divine crafters can actually sell... It is a shame some of the key buffs that do sell are available cheaper and with less investment as a potion. However, in all honesty the number one change I would like to see is as stated above, to add about 3 additional loot chests in the Chiontar Ruins and make lowbies have a bit more reason to risk taking that dungeon on. It is a far more interesting place than any other location until you are ready to go to Hilltop Ruins, but as it stands now other places are safer, give faster experience and more loot.

Almost forgot... the area outside Chiontar ruins could use a CR bump... With the difficulty of the dungeon, it sends players that travel here without knowing the server the wrong message. If I didn't know any better I would assume Chiontar was the easiest/lowest CR place to start as the outdoor enemies give very little xp (~10 at level 3) and are not very difficult to kill. I think they should be a bit more difficult than the graveyard or bandit caves... Maybe CR 1.5 or 2, so that players are not obliterated by going from CR 0.5 to CR 2.5...

And finally (I know, right?) if anyone has a level appropriate area they would like me to check out (or a higher level area you want me to take a look at in the future) either because it's new, or because you feel a change is warranted, feel free to post here or shoot me a PM and I will do my best to visit requested locations. Anyone is of course more than welcome to join Clinton on any of his brief adventures... Just know that I run through areas when they are boring and there is no risk, so if you don't like that...sorry. However, in beautiful area's like the Chiontar Ruins I am pretty much always in detect and stealth mode when not in combat...so if you don't like that....well, I question what is wrong with you!

Cheers everyone! enjoy your weekend.

[chad878262]

A few more thoughts after further play...

- The bandit cave is SOOOO BORING!!! If any area builders are active it'd be great for this iconic dungeon to get a revamp. Maybe the Bandits have dug themselves a second level or at least added a few rooms. Maybe there is a bandit sub-boss and cronies in one of these rooms giving a challenge (and reason) for lower levels to group up and take on a battle against several bandits to get more of their treasure. Perhaps it is seeing a couple really well done dungeons that weren't around (or I was too high level to properly experience), but considering Bandit Cave has an early quest and decent loot for low levels it would just be really nice to see it get some love from our talented area builders!

- The Graveyard Mausoleum is very well done. I missed it on previous play so I was level 3 when I entered, but was still a relatively challenging and time consuming place to be. The one downside is the XP is wrong in the dungeon. You get less XP in mausoleum than you do in the Graveyard or more difficult enemies. Perhaps just an issue with newer area and erring on the side of caution, but I'd recommend upping the CR by 1/2 or 1 (or whatever you area magicians do to increase XP). Otherwise the loot felt like the right amount for the area covered and the spawns were challenging for solo level 3 with wards (barkskin, heroism, mage armor). Really loved the dungeon, but increasing the XP will increase the folks willing to brave the dungeon rather than mindlessly grinding the graveyard (though I am sure some will still do that cuz spawn rates and open map will still make XP gain faster.)

- I was advised I may have missed something in the Chionthar ruins so I went back... I found the loose stone room and the additional area after pushing the hidden button with sub-boss battle. I still feel that the area is about 3 chests too light. Plenty of gold chests, but for the difficulty of the area it is simply far more lucrative and safe to go elsewhere. In addition, once again I question the XP rates. Once I reached level 5 I am only getting 33 XP / Kill (50 at 3, 45 at 4). The Kobold Ruins meanwhile at level 5 are giving 44 XP per kill and are FAR easier / less dangerous. I will repeat that I love the dungeon, I just think a few more chests and better XP would make it a more popular spot. It still gave me challenge at level 5, so I would say this dungeon is for parties levels 3-6 depending on experience of the players, loot (muling) and solo or party (and size of party).

- Speaking of the good old Hilltop Ruins, while I would not necessarily say they need to be amped up or anything, it would give a bit more reason to party up by simply increasing the numbers in chest rooms. Other than the Chief, the other chest rooms spawned either 0 or 1 kobold. Fighting enemies 1 or 2 at a time makes soloing far less challenging. And with their low AB (+4) It isn't like the vast majority of level 4-5 PCs will have less than 24 or 25 AC (or can get long duration potions to get them there). Heck, by level 5 I rock long duration 31 AC and can buff to 33 for 5 minutes. Going back to the comment above, consider that Chionthar ruins Bugbears have +7 AB, some bosses spawn with +8 and there are spell casters hitting you with magic missiles, daze, and flare. I would say that the XP and difficulty deserves a look comparing these two areas.

- I didn't have time to continue going...server reset was imminent and I need to be logging in to work, but I have heard the Hilltop -> FAI run has also received some changes and I am looking forward to seeing them. Meanwhile I will call out that again if our talented builders want to take a look at existing areas (since new areas aren't really a thing until server split is final and stable) there could be some serious potential to give players some new things to think about. Maybe some new beastie's move in to enslave the Kobolds adding a new spawn type or two. Or maybe the Kobolds have dug through a wall or something changing the layout a bit. Just spit balling, but level 1 hilltop ruins felt a little bland compared to Mausoleum and Chiontar. Of course this could also be that in past years I have been through Hilltop Ruins dozens of times while having only been through Mausoleum once and Chionthar Ruins twice.

Again, if there are any newer areas CR appropriate (currently PC is level 5) just give me a shout either in this thread, via PM or on Discord. Happy to take a look!

[Snarfy]

Pretty much everything you said about Chointar ruins is spot on. It's also one of my favorite looking low level dungeons, and the challenge is perfect for the level range it is intended for. Yes, the DC on that lock is just too steep, I remember bringing a level 5 or 6 character there once, in party with another with open locks, and even after buffing them they came nowhere near the DC. And even if you manage to get past that door... well, the area beyond it might look cool, but the risk/reward factor will probably leave most players scratching their head and wondering why they bothered to pick that lock in the first place(other than to maybe sit in that spooky chair and take a spiffy screenshot?).

If the DC of the traps is that high in that zone, I would say they aren't set to the 'minor' variety, as they probably should be. I don't know jack-diddly-squat about area building though, so I don't know if the trap difficulty can be universally selected and set throughout that zone. I also agree Chointar ruins need a little more loot, but just a smidge. Anything to steer more characters into it, really. As you mentioned, the kobold ruins are far better in terms of risk VS reward. And if your character wants to get filthy rich(I will never understand how players complain about gold or loot here, it's ridonkulous), running the Hilltop - Deep caves - Gibberling caves gamut will result in your character waddling out near the FAI like a fat kid leaving free hand-out day at the chocolate factory.

Bandit caves... ehh, I'm pretty sure the only reason that area still exists is because of the low level quest. Also, and personally speaking, from an immersion standpoint I never really liked the idea of a new adventurer having to go in there and sharpen their proverbial teeth by straight up murdering at least 10 - 20 humanoids just to get some goods. I mean, sure they're just bandits, in a bandit infested cave.... in the farmlands.... smack dab in the middle of Ducal territory, and spitting distance from a Fist guard and outpost. How many characters has that guard near palace district seen, I wonder, coming back from those caves drenched in blood and gore, while never lifting a finger to ask any of them how their murder-spree went. Then again, maybe a lot of other players RP their pass-through as knocking all the bandits out, rather than butchering them all. Which begs the question... where do those bandits keep coming from? And how are they getting into that cave, and past the ever vigilant Fist? My tin-foil hat is tingling. I guess we can always IC blame Ulgoths Beard? (since the transition is so close)... that place is sketch anyways.

Mausoleum is literally one of the coolest dungeons they've added in ages. Once, again, you're spot on about the XP... GY is better than the early levels. Also, there's the whole "Awakened undead" do not register as having the undead trait, and therefore cant be turned by any cleric in your party ... in a mausoleum... in the middle of a graveyard...... all of which is bursting at the seams with a veritable army of undead, in the farmlands, and spitting distance from the Gate. Are the Dukes drunk 24/7 or something? Anyhoo, the difficulty of the place is nearly perfect, at least until a character or party gets down to the construct areas, where it ramps up considerably.

I need more coffee...

[chad878262]

Bandit caves... ehh, I'm pretty sure the only reason that area still exists is because of the low level quest. Also, and personally speaking, from an immersion standpoint I never really liked the idea of a new adventurer having to go in there and sharpen their proverbial teeth by straight up murdering at least 10 - 20 humanoids just to get some goods. I mean, sure they're just bandits, in a bandit infested cave.... in the farmlands.... smack dab in the middle of Ducal territory, and spitting distance from a Fist guard and outpost. How many characters has that guard near palace district seen, I wonder, coming back from those caves drenched in blood and gore, while never lifting a finger to ask any of them how their murder-spree went. Then again, maybe a lot of other players RP their pass-through as knocking all the bandits out, rather than butchering them all. Which begs the question... where do those bandits keep coming from? And how are they getting into that cave, and past the ever vigilant Fist? My tin-foil hat is tingling. I guess we can always IC blame Ulgoths Beard? (since the transition is so close)... that place is sketch anyways.

Mausoleum is literally one of the coolest dungeons they've added in ages. Once, again, you're spot on about the XP... GY is better than the early levels. Also, there's the whole "Awakened undead" do not register as having the undead trait, and therefore cant be turned by any cleric in your party ... in a mausoleum... in the middle of a graveyard...... all of which is bursting at the seams with a veritable army of undead, in the farmlands, and spitting distance from the Gate. Are the Dukes drunk 24/7 or something? Anyhoo, the difficulty of the place is nearly perfect, at least until a character or party gets down to the construct areas, where it ramps up considerably.

Agree Snarfy. While there is likely nothing to be done in the immediate future, perhaps after server split some minor tweaks could be done in order to at least somewhat mitigate the IC jarring. For example could move the Graveyard map to connect to the current farmlands transition to Fields of the Dead? Maybe? That might jar some folks due to the location not being lore accurate? The bandit caves could actually be moved to connect to that cave that used to go to the GY necromancer cave since it is currently just a single small cave w/ an empty box. Just a couple thoughts, but I do agree that once the server splits it'd be great to make the low level area's a bit more in character / lore friendly as opposed to being very OOC with regards to being so close to BG and yet unchecked by the Fist.

[Rhifox]

PAlso, there's the whole "Awakened undead" do not register as having the undead trait, and therefore cant be turned by any cleric in your party ... in a mausoleum... in the middle of a graveyard...... all of which is bursting at the seams with a veritable army of undead, in the farmlands, and spitting distance from the Gate. Are the Dukes drunk 24/7 or something?

This is what you get when a city bans the worship of the god of the dead.

While there is likely nothing to be done in the immediate future, perhaps after server split some minor tweaks could be done in order to at least somewhat mitigate the IC jarring. For example could move the Graveyard map to connect to the current farmlands transition to Fields of the Dead? Maybe? That might jar some folks due to the location not being lore accurate?

Could have two graveyard maps, one bridging between North Farmlands and Fields of the Dead as you said, and one where it normally is, that has no undead in it, and thus could serve as an actual nice RP spot. Give one of the crypts there a link to the sewers/Undercity and boom you've got a nice place for necromancers and other evil sorts to move in and out of the city secretly (although I suspect Radiant Heart would start patrolling there if that happened, since it's on their doorstep).

After server spilt, of course.

[chad878262]

I have now reached level 9 on my character. I never muled anything and have been buying gear at Mudd's and from vendors based on what I can acquire in dungeons and sell. I have re-explored the Mausoleum and Chionthar ruins as well as gone to Soubar and explored the well/black temple, bear cave and whatever that minotaur dungeon is. Obviously I have also gone through Hilltop Ruins a couple of times. Below are my observations:

- The ruins below the Mausoleum with the Automatans should be moved. Even at level 9 I am getting 50xp each and they are probably the most difficult area I can go and survive (so long as I remember to keep plenty of shield potions up to protect from nasty magic missile spam, ey Snarfy?) In any case, there are a couple issues with the difficulty against the location.
1 - By the time you can manage the Automatans the Graveyard is FAR below anything to challenge you and even the Mausoleum critters and boss aren't a challenge at all. This means you are drawing higher level PC's to a low CR area in order to get through it to where they actually want to be. Higher level PC's trigger the script to increase area CR which in turn can make a low CR area extremely dangerous to level appropriate PCs, especially if the higher level PC kills too many mobs and triggers a boss spawn.
2 - In PnP there is a sort of trust and understanding between players and DMs that the DM will either give major warning if the party is going off the rails too much or getting in over their head, or simply not introduce level inappropriate content that gives the party no chance of success. While in the case of the Automatan area there is a couple messages that the CR has increased, I do not believe it is realistic to expect a party of level ~3-5 PCs that just cleared the Mausoleum to expect that they really need to be level ~8+ in order to have a chance in the new area.
I would like to reiterate that I LOVE the Mausoleum and the Automatan area below it. However, I feel the Automatan area should be reached from either the Cloakwood Mines or the Sharpteeth Orc cave. At minimum it could be added as a transition to the Chionthar ruins. This would better align the area to higher level content to avoid the above issues.

- The Minotaur area (Bridgefort) is listed as CR7, but I went at level 8 and it was crazy difficult. Granted I was solo, but there was a sub-boss (yellow name) spawn sitting around in the maze and the boss room spell caster spammed a lot of spells. I'm not complaining about this by the way, but it brought up something that may or may not have been considered up to this point related to the script dedude made that allows for CR increase. Some area's at lower CR ranges are far easier at increased CR than CR appropriate area's. What I mean by this is a PC can go to an area ~3-4 CR below their level and allow the script to increase the level of the spawns, but still have nothing to fear from those spawns. For example the Soubar Bear Cave is CR 3, going there at level 8 I could still get 38 XP per kill (might have been 33, I forget) and have no difficulty. However going to the Bane Temple (CR2.5) had far more difficult enemies thanks to spells, sneak attacks, traps, etc. I love this, but also think (where appropriate) it would be fantastic when CR is increased in an area that new mobs might also be introduced. After all a bear is still a bear, regardless if it's in a CR 3 area or if the script ups the CR to 7.

- The Bane Temple could use a bit of tweaking. The walls are built two levels up which can make navigating in the area extremely difficult thanks to NWN2's awful camera, pathfinding, etc. It's a fun little side area when you go down the well, but the frustration of navigating it definitely turns me off from any desire to return.

General thoughts:

- I took feint at level 4 on my PC specifically to be able to test it out throughout the leveling process (even though with 1 APR Feint will never trigger sneak attacks. The point was/is to test if it is useful). Thus far, up to level 9 I would say it is correctly balanced where it's at. It doesn't work everywhere, like in Thunder's Ride where I've yet to be successful after two trips through the area (one with Snarfy, the other prematurely ending when I needed to chug a potion of invisibility and high tail it outta there! ). However, every other area it will work at least enough to sometimes make it worthwhile once you get to 2 APR. My general strategy is to wait until my first attack fires and depending on the AC of the enemy and if it is sneak immune or not, I will then use feint on the second attack. If an enemy has high AC feint can help make the first attack land more often so is sometimes worth 'giving up' the 2nd attack and against enemies who can be sneak attacked my 4d6 (~14 average damage) from sneak attacks can sometimes be more average damage then I would have done had my 2nd attack landed (unless it's a crit). The reason this is important is that Feint obviously becomes a truly great feat once you have more APR. Utilizing your last attack to feint opens up better opportunities for higher BAB attacks to hit and of course do sneak attack damage. However, in the past the issue I've always found is there is a very brief window where feint can actually work and is useful. This is generally around BAB11 up until you get to ~BAB18 or so due to that being when fewer and fewer mobs can actually be successfully feinted. This is why many say feint is a waste of a feat, but I have built this particular PC specifically to be able to get bluff to ~60 (a truly focused feinter could get more, but wouldn't really have enough sneak dice to make it all that great). I'll keep ya'll posted as I continue to level.

- With the script that increases area CR applying to lower CR area's, it would not be a bad thing to reduce a couple of the 5-10 CR areas down in to the 3-4 range. With the script that only allows looting an area once every 6 hours you can actually get through a large amount of the lower level content. Not a huge deal, but seeing as a CR4 area can go up to CR8 and that there are 17 0-4 area's vs. 20 5-10, dropping one or two of the CR 5 area's down to 4 would likely make things a little more fun at levels 1-8. Maybe...just spit balling here and I am uncertain since at level ~11-15 you probably need more of those CR 5-10 area's with the script to increase them since there are fewer areas the higher up you go.

- I still think Chionthar ruins is a bit light on chests. However, I think adding 3 would be too many. Just one or two more would be appropriate in my opinion.

[zhazz]

When an area is listed as being CR7, such as the Minotaurs, it means that the overall difficulty of the area is suitable for a group of 4 characters at levels 6 to 8. This takes into account not only the relative strength of the individual monsters, but also the severity of traps, number of enemy spell casters, number of ambushes, and the size of each enemy group faced.

I can't remember the exact number, I would have to look it up in the 3.5 Dungeon Master Guide, but I do believe that a solo character at level 12 would be able to handle themselves in a CR7 area. Again, I would have to confirm with the DMG, but I am sure someone else will correct me if I am wrong.

That you were able to manage in a CR7 area as an 8th level character is most likely due to the prevalence of magical items and potions on this server. While the server might be medium magic in terms of individual magical item power, magic items by themselves are quite common. Thereby far exceeding what would be expected of an 8th level player character to have, when following the standard CR rules for encounters.

You most likely added +2 to your "power level", effectively putting you at 10th level, due to wands/scrolls/potions and magical armor/weapons/accessories.

[chad878262]

When an area is listed as being CR7, such as the Minotaurs, it means that the overall difficulty of the area is suitable for a group of 4 characters at levels 6 to 8. This takes into account not only the relative strength of the individual monsters, but also the severity of traps, number of enemy spell casters, number of ambushes, and the size of each enemy group faced.

Correct.

That you were able to manage in a CR7 area as an 8th level character is most likely due to the prevalence of magical items and potions on this server. While the server might be medium magic in terms of individual magical item power, magic items by themselves are quite common. Thereby far exceeding what would be expected of an 8th level player character to have, when following the standard CR rules for encounters.

Well, as I said up front, I can't 'unknow' what I already know about the server and having been around since 2014 (though away for more than a year) that is a whole heck of a lot. While I'm not using wands yet, yes when solo I utilize potions so that I can get a view of different area's and that is why I make sure to call out my character level etc. at the beginning of each post. However, there is still value to call out some of the potential pitfalls between the scripts that can increase area CR based on character levels in comparison to more 'traditional' CR area's.

As to what level you should be to solo content of a given CR that is very dependent upon server knowledge, general mechanical knowledge, build, gear and other factors as well (such as player capabilities, lag, etc.) My aim with these posts is simply to provide developers, area builders, QC and Admins with some detail that they may or may not be aware of. Folks that have been around for a long time tend to not start new characters when they do, it is easy to fall in to a pattern of muled gear, questing to go up in levels without really experiencing low level content, etc. While I cannot experience the server as a truly new player, by not muling gear, not questing (unless I get to a point where there is no CR appropriate content left to experience) I can at least advise what is possible. More importantly, I know enough to be able to callout the truly egregious things that should probably be addressed, such as having an area that is difficult for a level 9 PC solo or in a duo with someone else which is only reached by first going through a CR1 and CR3 area.

I appreciate your response, and wasn't trying to do anything other than let you know that I am aware of what you posted, but the purpose here is not to argue the CR system (we aren't going to change a D&D mechanic like that even if we wanted to!) The purpose is to give the area builders, developers and admins feedback to hopefully improve upon the impressive work they continue to do for all of our enjoyment.

[chad878262]

The past few days have had some really fun experiences and I'd like to say another thank you to the developers, scripters, area builders, dungeon masters and admins past and present for continuing to make changes that have added a lot of interesting surprises even for players that have been around the server countless times! Careful, spoilers abound (as I suppose they do throughout my posts here)

Some of the really fun stuff that's happened recently:

- In the Automatan area with Snarfy, got blasted with like two dozen magic missiles in a row and visited the fugue. Snarf man was able to go invis and (slowly) drag my PCs magically battered corpse back to a temple. We had been feeling pretty safe (or at least I was) when BAM!!! nope. Was a great reminder to keep on your toes!

- Exploring the sewers (again with Snarfy, though he was on a different PC). The Water Naga's are quite challenging in a good way, but the spawn rate seemed crazy low so we only saw maybe 2 or 3 naga's and a couple slimes or oozes when BAM! Water Naga used a scroll to summon an ORGLASH (or maybe a kindly DM spawned one?) and Snarfy yelled "RUN!!!" so we did. Both heading for the nearest exit, we must have passed a good DOZEN MOBS trying to block our exit... Attacks of Opportunity abound and we barely made it back to the upper sewer with our hides in tact!

- Exploring Cloakwood Mines with Theodore01, 2nd level and we had the good idea after handling the area with zero risk and good XP that we should see if we could spawn the counter-attack boss script...BOY DID WE! Half a dozen spawns with (I think) two purple and two yellow batiri Theo got fugued before we even really knew what hit us. I *attempted* to get some distance and swig some potions, but before I could get my invisibility potion down I joined dear Theo in the fugue. Whoa! We pissed them batiri off and they were not having it!

- Later on, after reset (and feeding my dogs, taking them out, getting more coffee, etc.) I went back to check out the third level of the mines. Huh, I thought...these undead are new. I was a bit disappointed as I was getting 50xp for them though and they were a cake walk. I was thinking about including this as a suggestion to add in some skeleton mages or priests (EDIT: on subsequent trips I did run in to skeleton mages so I suppose was just lucky they did not spawn on this trip...they're pretty easy anyway, but they're still casters), then I ran around a corner in to three of the skeleton miners (or whatever) and a VAMPIRE SPAWN! I went from ~98 health down to about ~8 health quickly, but during this time swigged invis potion (didn't keep the vamp off me, but at least stopped his lackies from going at me) and then a shield pot, cats grace, cast ghostly visage and then downed greater heroism, bless, aid and bulls (while applying vigor pot and healing kits throughout!) I then was able to take down the mobs, but all the while had to keep an eye on health and continue swigging healing pots/using bandages all the while. I survived (BARELY) and man, what a rewarding encounter!

- I will say this type of a lull-you to complacency and then BAM! hit you with a tough encounter was LOADS of FUN!!!! I WANT MORE!!! However, it should be noted that this type of surprise within an area only works once (whether you survive or not). So it would be a really cool thing (IMO) to find a way to have a few encounters that have a chance of occurring in a given zone which challenge in different ways... Spell Resistance or higher AC and or AB, whatever. Just stuff where an encounter can occur unexpectedly and even if you've been to the area before you might not be ready for it. If any enterprising dev or area builder is interested in analyzing options to balance encounters for a given area feel free to reach out on discord or PM me. Would be happy to help come up with some CR appropriate encounters that perhaps could be randomized as boss battles that have a chance of spawning at certain points in a given area. I know some players don't like this as they want to have a fairly good grasp on if they can handle an area safely, but personally I feel like the feeling of accomplishment when you win or even SURVIVE such an encounter is just awesome! While yes, as above it can also result in PvE player character death and I know some challenge themselves with perma-death characters I still feel like having these surprises makes the Sword Coast feel far more dangerous and gave me all the PnP good feels! Like I said, I WANT MORE!

- One note that I thought might be something to look at. It appears that the Hilltop ruins is only running the script to increase CR in the middle two levels (imps/dragonling level and bats level). The kobolds and gibberlings do not seem to scale to PC/Party level. I believe I was level 9 the last time I ran through and kobolds gave like 12 xp, the middle two levels gave 35xp, but then the gibberlings gave 17xp. Felt strange since the gibberlings are supposed to be the hardest part of that dungeon.

There have been others, but the above experiences are ones that will stick with me a long time, so again, THANK YOU! The server definitely has been enlivened by the continued changes implemented in the past ~12 months since I played and ~18 since I played any consistent amount of time. Cheers!

[chad878262]

So I have reached level 12 (R4/F2/A6) on my PC with the following feats:
- LoH, Improved Initiative, CE, Feint, Blinding Strike, Shield Bash, Knockdown, Exotic Weapon Proficiency

Equipment: Mithril Chainmail, Amulet +3 NA, +1 CON, Finch's Fine Chapeau, Belt +3 Deflection, Gauntlets of Ogre Power, Boots +3 Dodge, Ring +3 WIS, Ring +5 Lore, cloak of the deceiver, Katana +4, Heavy Shield +3, Wand of Protection from Evil, Wand of Improved Mage Armor, Heroism Potions, Vigor Potions, stack of 9 heal potions and a few other random potions.

It should be noted that until recently I had utilized Katana +1 with vamp regen 1 and Katana +1 w/ 14 spell resistance. However, having seen the prevalence of relatively cheap +4 weapons I figure by 12 it's fair to assume that rocking +4 or 3 weapon is pretty standard, unless even at 12 your stubbornly sticking to using a Longsword which is more expensive (supply and demand). I also only recently had enough gold to purchase my first two wands so that has been a big boon, especially pfe since like all rogues, my PC has abysmal will saves.

New areas I have visited:

- Thunders Ride some more, good xp area for level ~10-11 and can be solo'd if you are properly prepared. Obviously a group is more fun, but so far I have only been lucky enough to group up with someone a few times as described above.

- Seaside Troll Cave - Same as I remember it. Decent XP (42 at level 12 solo and 80 for the boss), but a relatively expensive jaunt if you don't have a weapon with fire or acid damage. I burned through nearly all of my 10 perfected alchemist fires (purchased on AH from a friendly Master Alchemist crafter for under 2,500 gold).

- Beregost Mines - Same as I remember it, though for some reason I had thought the Soothsayer was more difficult. He appears to have some ability that raises him to max HP on death (spirit shaman?) as I killed him and he immediately respawned. *shrug* I killed him again. Solo at level 12 the gobbo's here give 47 XP each, but I neglected to document what I got for the Soothsayer. I do believe this would be an ideal dungeon to add the Automatan's to if an area builder wanted to move that away from the low CR graveyard/mausoleum. Could maybe even amp the CR up a bit more with the move.

- Tradeway Gnolls - Had to log off early as I got pulled in to an early morning work call (the joys of working for an international company ), but I did get through all of the first level (well, where I remember the chests being) and the first part of the 2nd level. Unfortunately I could not get to the 2nd level boss, but Gnolls like Beregost Goblins are giving 47 XP each and thus far haven't offered too much of a challenge so long as I keep an eye out on health and wards. I did come here once at level 10 and they were a bit tougher, but doable until I ran in to a large group. That was another one of those 'I didn't win, but I survived which is kinda a win' fun encounters!

At level 12 my AC is 10 + 6 (MCM) + 2 (DEX) + 9 (deflection/dodge/natural) + 5 (+3 heavy shield) + 1 (LoH) + 1 (Tumble) = 34, 36 with cats grace (4 casts per rest, lasting 6 minutes each) 42 w/ Improved Mage Armor. I also use Ghostly Visage (4 casts per rest, 6 minutes per cast) which at level 12 is a very good ward (10% concealment, immunity to all level 1 spells and DR 5/magic). So defense wise my sword and board rogue holds up pretty well. Against the soothsayer and his 4 buddies I got taken down to a little less than half health and was certainly ready to pop a heal pot if I got any lower and once in the gnolls (2nd floor) I had a melee, 2 ranged, an occulist and a shaman to deal with and again got down near 1/2 health. Otherwise, I generally haven't lost more than 10 or 15 HP in an encounter which regenerates before the next encounter most of the time.

My AB is 9 (BAB) + 5 (STR) + 4 (EB) - 2 (Shield Bash) = 16, usually 18 thanks to heroism pots and can get up to 23 w/ greater heroism/bless/aid/bulls str potions if I need it (usually if taking on a boss I haven't faced with this PC and am in any way concerned that the battle might mean a possible fugue trip.

Fort and Reflex save are pretty good at 11 and 13 IIRC, but Will save is 6 (again iirc).

My general tactics are to go after spell casters first (of course) with knockdown and blinding strike to try and keep them from casting any spells before I can down them. With melee enemies I use my 2nd attack to feint if the 2nd attack doesn't land in the first round. In general if I land one attack with sneak I do approximately the same damage as if I land two attacks right now so I make a judgement during the encounter as I read the combat log and determine how much of a chance my second attack has to hit. Of course if Feint fails several times in a row I stop using it on that enemy and rely on KD and Blinding Strike. Clickies are fun.

Didn't encounter anything new in these areas, which was a bit of a let down after seeing all the new cool stuff in the lower levels, but I hear there is at least a slight change in the Sharpteeth Orc Caves which I plan to go to next time so I am looking forward to that. Of course this is not an indictment, you can't change everything and we all know the limitations on the server from a resource/space perspective. It's just simply how I felt when going to these areas. I know there are a lot more mid-level area's to explore and if anything the leveling is so fast that as you can tell it can actually be tough to see everything before you are overleveled for an area. This is a great situation of course as it allows you to take a different path with your next character, should you so chose and have a different experience.

General thoughts:
- You don't need a powerbuild to solo. You do need to understand the CR system, especially the server script that can increase area CR based on your level and you do need to be willing to use consumables. They more than pay for themselves in allowing you to get more loot while having a better chance to avoid the fugue.
- grouping up is fun, but it just isn't always an option. I am not one to walk around to campfires or inns hoping to find some folks interested in going adventuring nor am I one to look at scry and go to someone with the same number of asterisks as me and see if they want to adventure. I go adventure and if I run in to someone on the way or in a dungeon and they want to group up, great! Judge as you will, but I play for adventure and RP, not to sit around a campfire like it's a chat room with graphics. To each their own and while I whole heartedly agree that it would be better to experience the CR appropriate area's with a group, I play early mornings US times when there are around 30 people in game so it has rarely been an option.
- Feedback continues to be welcome, I wasn't sure these posts were helpful for anyone... Thank you to the DM and the couple of players who reached out via tells to let me know that they are, in fact appreciated by at least a few! As always if anyone has something they would like checked out in game feel free to reach out.

Cheers!

[chad878262]

Current level 14 (R4/F2/A8)

I have not experienced much additional content. Spent some time with a couple buddies in the Sharpteeth Orc Caves, have done Cloakwood Central including Minotaur Caves (no boss yet) and the Wytch Caves, did one loop of Xvarts to loot and one loop of Wyverns. here are my comments

- Having players go to a low CR area (Gibberlings) to get an item needed in order to get in to a room in a higher CR area (Sharpteeth Orc Cave) is a bad idea in my opinion. You are giving level ~8-13 PCs a reason to go in to a CR3 area, which causes issues for CR appropriate parties both from a mechanical perspective (possible increased spawn CR that could make it more than a level 3 party can handle, plus now they may not get to go over the boss cuz some level 13 PC just went in and ROFL-stomped the area) as well as from an IC perspective ("Guess we're not needed guys...that insanely powerful glowing dude just destroyed all the gibberlings we've been struggling to cleanse the caverns of"). I do not mean this as a criticism of the additions. I love that several of the areas have puzzles to them that require back-tracking, going to other areas, etc. to solve. I just feel it would improve the experience if thought was given to how you can accomplish this. For example, instead of Gibberling Heart, make the puzzle in Orc Cave require an eye... Then allow players to collect an eyestalk from the Gauth beholder thing at the bottom of the Gnolls. Or put something on the trollcave boss, or on the vampire spawn on level 3 of the Cloakwood caves. Just keep it to approximately the same CR as the Orc Caves.

- Level 12 introduced it, at level 14 it has now been 3 levels of reinforcement. We *NEED* more CR 10+ dungeons. Long dungeons. Now, I have never heard of Skuldaask's Cave so I'll be looking to find it and maybe it is deep/long, but assuming it isn't, after the Gnoll Cave (CR8), the only semi-long dungeons that require you to spend a good amount of time in them is Ulcaster (CR16), Nashkel Mine (CR19), Durlags (CR19 and 22), Yuan-Ti Temple (CR23), Vault of the Dead (CR24, 25, 29) and that is about it. Up to level 10 we have the Mausoleum (awesome), hilltop->FAI (still great), Chiontar Ruins (short, but still solid), BG Sewers->undercity (not great, but fun for a level appropriate party), Cloakwood Mines, Sharpteeth Orc Cave, Gnoll Cave, and the Overgrown Abandoned Chappel/North of Beregost Mine. That is 8 dungeons that require a fairly decent amount of time up to CR10 vs. 5 CR11+ areas. I cannot stress enough that I see this as the primary issue with complaints over leveling. While I can't speak to all players, I do not believe leveling slowing down as you go up in levels is a bad thing. I *DO* see the fact that more and more your only real option is to repeat previously visited area's and/or circle grind area's to speed level. Upon a stable server split I see this as what should be the #1 priority. Find lore appropriate areas for the Sword Coast (and lets be fair, UD has it even worse) to add more dungeons. Or even start populating existing cave transitions with some new dungeons. More area's to adventure means less boredom with the level ranges. Going to the same areas over and over is no fun, but you are sitting there looking at the next area's you might be able to handle and the risk in those area's plus the XP being capped means you end up grinding, which gets frustrating.

- Perhaps as an offshoot of the above, loot actually goes down at level ~11-14. This in my opinion is because the close proximity of chests in Hilltop run, mausoleum and 3 levels of cloakwood mine vs. what is available. Gnolls aren't bad, but without a party it is generally a bad idea to take on the Gauth without the right kind of spells/build (such as a super tanky dwarf, eh Zanniej?) Overall it really seems like doing trolls, gnolls and orcs is simply not as lucrative as the hilltop run or even the Goblin Mine. This by the way may lead to more issues with my first point about overleveled PCs going to CR inappropriate areas. Its faster, less risky and can net you 25K plus gold vs. about 10K for CR appropriate areas. I can't say I feel like the area's need more chests for their size. Really I think it is more about the fact they are simply smaller dungeons so less loot.

- On level 2 of Gnoll Cave, in that hallway where enemies spawn, while I *love* the danger created by the area if solo and at CR appropriate levels, I do not like the fact that it attracts solo and group players to the spot to grind. The fast spawn rate means that even if folks are only getting ~25XP per kill it can be better than going to a CR appropriate area because sometimes enemies spawn faster than you kill them. This creates awkward situations for groups that are roleplaying their adventure through the dungeon. In my opinion grind spots should as much as possible not be in the few real dungeon crawls we have.

That's it for now. As always I hope this is helpful for Area Builders/Developers/Scripters/etc. Love the work that has been done and just bringing these points up to hopefully help improve it even further. Cheers!

[chad878262]

Current level: 17; R4/F4/A8/GFK1

Interesting finds thus far: a dusty tome (history of Amn-Gate War, no true name; could have sold it, but to be honest I didn't want to land that kind of gold too early as being able to purchase epic gear would not give much of a realistic playing experience), bracers with immunity to harm spell, and that's about it...most of what I have found is vendor trash, but that's fine IMO. Finding the really great stuff is only exciting because it is rare.

- Shield Bash is not always a great mode, depending on your strategy. If you enter HiPS with Shield Bash mode active your shield bash will continue to fire, taking you back out of stealth if you are in range of any enemies. My guess is it'd be difficult to do anything about this, but if it can be fixed it probably should be... Like if you stop the attack action shield bash doesn't occur.

- Feint continues to be a viable method of delivering sneak attacks even with limited focus on bluff. I have max bluff for skill points, but only +1 CHA modifier, Finch's Fine Chapeau and a Cloak from Seven Suns for a total of +6 bluff. I sometimes use heroism or greater heroism potions, but I have yet to be in an area where it is outright impossible to land feint, though more and more it is becoming somewhat less consistent. I'll start looking to upgrade gear to get more bluff bonuses though as I now have enough to get one of the epic cloaks and then will need to begin pushing towards other bluff gear.

- I'll reiterate that we really need more content as you gain levels past 12. To be honest I don't even think you necessarily need new dungeons. Could simply add levels to existing dungeons. Minotaurs are CR10, so you could add a CR 11 level 2 and CR12 level 3. Hag Caves are CR12, and could have a CR13 and/or 14 area added. Skuldaask's Cave is CR13 and considering the boss is nowhere near something even a strong party of level 13 PCs want anything to do with that boss. This area would be great to add 2-3 levels to with the boss at the bottom cuz iirc that is a tough cookie even for a party at around level 18 or so. The Elder Ogre Stronghold has a 2nd level, but it's woefully small and could use expansion.

- Haven't yet had a chance to form a party so I can go check out Ulcaster or the Gullykin Crypt which iirc would be suicide to try and solo on a PC like mine with terrible will saves and I generally am just not observant or quick enough to use hips or wands to defeat incoming spells that would ruin my poor thugs day. Maybe if I find a decent spell resistance item...

That's it for now. Mostly mechanical stuff to talk about as there just isn't any new content I've been able to explore. It has definitely reinforced my opinion that the 'grind' isn't so much an issue with how fast leveling is. Playing 16 hours a week for just over 3 weeks, so maybe 50-55 hours total and being at level 17 I would say it is plenty fast, personally. The issue is it simply gets repetitive in terms of where you can go to have a strong, but not impossible challenge. There are very few locations and they are all extremely small (unless you count large outdoor maps to circle grind).

Cheers and happy gaming folks!

[chad878262]

Had a fun romp today so wanted to post again to call out a few things from a player experience perspective as well as some mechanics hiccups.

- I can't say enough how much the random things that happen in PvE truly improve the experience. Monday night I was playing on a level 1 with a buddy of mine I coerced who decided to give the game and server a try. I took him around to pick up some stuff to help keep our level 1 barbarian (him) and bard (me) alive and we headed to the Graveyard. Things were going well, I had reached level 2 while he was still at 1 (he decided to go earth genasi, so I made a Dwarven Bard to be his Skald) when a boss spawn occurred and I quickly found myself in fugue while he was quick to follow. I can't speak for him, but I found it enjoyable even when it resulted in a player death simply because it was unexpected. We'd only been in the graveyard maybe 10 or 15 minutes so to have a boss randomly pop in to give us a good whipping was a great reminder that you really need to get some escape plans figured out ASAP (though at the early stages there aren't really enough funds to do so).

- Another cool thing happened this morning... Went to toe Elder Ogre Stronghold in Troll Claws and there is a boss in there now! Used to be two elder ogre magi, but now one of them is a named boss... Wow that was a tough fight! My character is level 17 with poor will saves, but does have a wand of PfE and HiPS so I equipped my horribly too low SR14 tower shield and decided to give it a go. The Ogre Magi went down relatively quickly and a couple uses of my wand of summoning ate a couple of the more dangerous spells so I felt pretty confident taking on the boss solo. Well the Vampire he summoned was hitting for like 50 damage on crits so it was still a tough as nails battle in which I used 6 heal potions (~4200 gold) not to mention the buffs from wands and potions. However, after a relatively long fight (feint didn't land once in about 20 tries over the course of the fight) that saw the vampire summon (finally and thankfully) dissipate I was able to emerge victorious. It most likely cost me more than I made, but that's the way it should be when you consider my PC is level 17 and is by no means a power build at all. The Elder Ogre Stronghold is CR15, but with the script may very well have been CR17 for my PC so I have no issues and in fact am more than happy to pay in resources/gold to be able to appreciate the challenge. It was a fun romp that I will happily repeat. Only 4 chests, but it's not all that big either. I will say that the area has obviously not been updated from a standpoint of the gold piles... They give paltry amounts of maybe ~12-50gp while some of the newer low level areas with gold piles give quite a bit more. EDIT TO ADD: I will say that I can understand the frustrations voiced by some players over inflated saving throws. There definitely APPEARS to be a massive leap when you get the CR15 + areas in terms of stopping certain things from working. I think that's ok to a point, but also feel there should be more of a puzzle in figuring out weaknesses of certain enemies. Just pumping saves, granting DR and massive HP pools to enemies isn't really an increase in difficulty, it is actually more of an encouragement toward certain builds that handle such things with ease. There are other, more creative ways to ensure difficulty of areas which would actually encourage party play while providing for difficulty to those builds that today handle the more 'standard' mobs with ease since they do enough damage to cut through DR and down most mobs in one round. Would love to see some work done creatively with existing areas to adjust the difficulty toward more encouragement of party play and less directing towards certain builds.

- In addition to the above, while making a quick run through the Lions Way Gnoll Cave (too recoup the losses of the Elder Ogre Stronghold and because it was almost time to log in for work) I was pleasantly surprised to get a bit of an unexpected challenge when on the last level, in the room before you get to the Gauth/Beholder thing, a boss Occulist, two regular Occulists, a Shaman, a Maurader and a Scout all spawned together. By the time that battle was over I had to consume a healing potion and make use of several of my clicky abilities. The XP gains weren't great, but not bad either and the simple fact that I was challenged in an area where at level 17 I've long since outgrown was really cool.

- Shield Charge is so awesome, but also quite buggy. Not sure if it can be fixed, but sometimes when you click it it says some other feat is on cooldown (I forget which one it is, maybe bear warrior roar? Definitely a feat I do not have). Sometimes it also simply doesn't work and goes on cooldown (but Knockdown doesn't), but this might be based on if there are obstacles between you and the target (even if those obstacles are walkmesh or simply the amazing NWN2 pathfinding). Anyway, I still think it is well worth it as the Charge Knockdown in some cases is an amazing first strike on an enemy spell caster.

- Another confusing (if not classified as buggy) thing about Shield Charge is it *always* will pop the message "Shield Bash: ON" when you activated it and will *always* pop the message "Shield Bash: OFF" after the charge is executed, even if you already have Shield Bash active. Based on my experience it appears that Shield Bash does not turn off if you had it activated prior to the charge and it does correctly apply the penalties if you do not have Bash active when you activate charge (and remove them after the charge when it is deactivated). So it appears to work correctly, just the messaging is confusing.

- I had previously indicated that when using HiPS while shield bash is active that it will fire off after you HiPS, thus dropping you out of HiPS. However, when you use Ghost Step (Ghost Faced Killer) it appears to not fire off Shield Bash. I only tried this once, so I'll need to do a bit more testing (only have two uses per day right now), but it certainly seemed odd that Shield Bash would stop when you are invisible, but not hiding. Possible it is simply about when you activate it and perhaps the attack action only stops after a couple seconds or something. Not sure, will test more as I go though.

- I definitely think the server admins, builders, scripters and devs should give a look to Pauls post here as these types of things may be less strenuous on the servers valuable memory while we await the server split to take place. I do not think the percentages should be increased on boss spawns as if they occur to often they will no longer be a surprise when they do occur. Rather I think coming up with additional/unique things that players can find which will grant fresh life to already visited areas would keep things exciting. As I said previously I don't think the issue is the speed of leveling, I think it is the repetitiveness of the play experience once you reach mid levels. Adding things like Paul brought up would help to alleviate that repetitiveness over time by giving players a reason to explore and seek out opportunities for these little scavenger hunts/bounties, rather than go back to the same half dozen dungeons (or 3-4 circle grind maps).

Cheers all, hope at least someone is enjoying all my massive walls of text.

[c2k]

Just to note of shield bash and shield charge, its always been like that since its been implemented. Its likely because its coded to "squeeze in" that extra attack into a turn code that is hardcoded into the engine.

[Snarfy]

*temporarily hijacks Chads thread*

Just pumping saves, granting DR and massive HP pools to enemies isn't really an increase in difficulty, it is actually more of an encouragement toward certain builds that handle such things with ease. There are other, more creative ways to ensure difficulty of areas which would actually encourage party play while providing for difficulty to those builds that today handle the more 'standard' mobs with ease since they do enough damage to cut through DR and down most mobs in one round.

Speaking of inflated stats/saves/the like, I'm seriously starting to think there's an over-abundance of monsters on this server who are crit-immune. I decided to take my level 30 Sacred Fist to the spirit troll caves(an area I never take my rogue. 10 years later, that was the first time I explored the place, and saw the boss), and holy jumping bajeepers... the knockdown spam and crit-immunity/DR in that place is bonkers. It kind of made me wonder how players manage the content without a way to overcome them(I seldom notice crit-immunity/DR since my rogue has epic precision). My SF is no slouch, and it took me a few minutes to kill one air elemental, but still I was managing the place rather well... until I got bored and decided to charge the boss room, just so I'd know what the boss actually looked like Needless to say, things went downhill fast. In attempting to run like hell, my toon got pinned against a wall by about 8 critters, half of which KD'd him repeatedly, and I didn't have the means to do enough damage to chip away at the mob... still, I lasted about 3 or 4 minutes before visiting the fugue, so I'm just going to look at that like an accomplishment.

After that awesomeness, I decided I would go visit the Greenest bandit cave with Castorius Whats-his-face... and while I have nothing against a challenge, for the life of me I have a hard time reconciling how a CR 24 mob can have between 4000 and 5000 hp I think maybe, just maybe, the inflation of monster stats/crit-immunity/DR/what have you might only be there because of the appalling predictability of the AI, as in: it has no creativity, and just spams the same old spells/feats as a means of offence/defense. Literally every caster type monster will do one of the following, and probably in this order: Summon creature/Elemental swarm, dispell/breach, elemental shield buff, cast <insert AoE/offensive magic here>. Then of course there's the whole AI metagaming your character... have low CL buffs up? Blammo, dispelled. Have abysmal will saves? Womp, you're feared/running around like an idiot for 1 to 2 minutes. Low fort save? Pew pew, save or die spell, suck it.

Just once, I wish monsters would do something surprising when encountering them, or behaved in whatever manner would be normal for their type/race/class... and since the AI can't be overhauled(at least I don't think it can), maybe it would be more beneficial to take a look at switching up the rather atypical selection of spells and feats that monsters have. Anything that deviates from the norm, really. Because when an orc behaves like a bugbear that behaves like a troll that behaves like a duergar who behaves like a flind, it all gets to be kind of the same, stale, old cheese.