Cavestalker Abilities Area Updates

[Steve]

This thread is to list Areas that are still not "set" to support Cavestaker abilities:

- Titanfist Mines

[Valefort]

A mine is not considered a natural area, that's why.

[Steve]

Have you seen that Area? It looks pretty cave-y to me!

[Steve]

PS - Let's not get hung up on the Name of things, yes?

Because:

Underdark Affinity
Type of Feat: Class Ability
Prerequisites: Cavestalker 2nd level,
Specifics: Your adaptation to the Underdark allows you to use your nature-themed class abilities in natural subterranean surroundings....

Now, if you want to debate whether a "mine" is not a natural surrounding, and that all "caves" are naturally created and not "dug out" by some creature or another—at times—then okay, I guess we're going to draw the line at what is "natural" subterranean vs. hand-made or creature created.

[Valefort]

I checked a couple of other mines areas in the module to be sure that was consistent and none were set to natural so this seemed deliberate, sorry

[Steve]

Conspiracy!!!

Well, this means then we have a number of inconsistencies regarding this natural vs. made subterranean Areas. I’ll compile some examples.

[Steve]

Okay, some inconsistencies.

- Varalla's Passage. Created by the Lich Queen Varalla. Not natural.
- Rockrun. Created by Duergar. Not Natural.
- South of Grottoes. Seems like a dug out Duergar +/- Drow compound. Not natural.

This is just my first run through of the UD/UpD in a long time. But my point is, there are already places that are not naturally made, and Underdark Affinity works there. Now, I realize that in the instance of Rockrun and perhaps South of Grottoes, because those actual Area Maps consist of half-created, half-natural areas, that by limitation of the Engine Mechanics, this is just how it has to be. But then with Varalla's Passage, is that just...because?!!?

I just want to know how arbitrary the line is being drawn, if it depends on the name the Area is given, or by the limitations of the Engine, or X persons interpretation of the actual Feat. And, if an Area with "Mine" in its name yet actually has some X percentage of natural parts to it, can we make a better judgement on setting to Natural or not, please?

[chad878262]

To be fair Ranger Camouflage works in Baldur's Gate (a city, not exactly natural surroundings) so it isn't like Cave Stalkers are special in having inconsistent area flags. Why not be happy when it works well and learn where it can be used while playing. Just enjoy the ride...

If of course, it is a huge deal than sure, flag it for a fix, but in my opinion there are far more high priority fixes to address than area flags.

[Steve]

Why not be happy when it works well and learn where it can be used while playing. Just enjoy the ride...

Oh Chaddy Chad Chad my boy...you could also follow your own advice!

[chad878262]

Why not be happy when it works well and learn where it can be used while playing. Just enjoy the ride...

Oh Chaddy Chad Chad my boy...you could also follow your own advice!

Touche Steve!

Of course my posts do not argue with a decision when a dev says 'no' to something since none have deemed to comment (or maybe even read for all I know...some people dislike my walls of text! ) It really comes off as 'ok you don't want to give me the abilities in the areas I want them in, fine take them away in these other areas.' It is like asking for volunteers to do work out of spite, what is the purpose?

[Steve]

Just trying to be clear on an issue. I think we can all say with 99% certainty that there are and have been umpteen examples of simply, no-harm-no-foul oversight, and, for my own peace of mind, trying to get to the bottom of why it's not working, why it IS working correctly, why its strangely working (when it shouldn't), and with again, clear identification of the proper or even just the best conditions, a possible change can be made.

BTW, if you missed it yourself, your Analysis thread almost immediately inspired changes to the Server by Staff. So pat yourself on the back, Chaddo, then...leave my thread alone!!

PS- as for not taking The Valeminator at face value, he did write "...this seemed deliberate...." Which with the language used, establishes a small but undeniable sliver of doubt...of which I'm making a GIANT PROBLEM OVER! !!

COME, EVERYONE, LOOK AT THE GIANT PROBLEM HERE!!!!! lol.

PSS - Turn off Ranger Camouflage in Baldur's Gate! (thanks Chad for pointing out this URGENT MATTER that needs rectification).

[Valefort]

Mechanically it's a checkbox in the area parameters, the area maker decides if the area as a whole is natural or not. It's a case by case thing, and for titanfist mines, even outside of the fact that all other mines are not set to natural there are things like that :



That part of the area is undoubtedly artifical however you look at it with lighting, railway (even though that hairpin turn is pure craziness), stonework masonry pillars, wooden platform. The part where you took your screenshot was equally undoubtedly natural, however overall there are lots of artificial stuff in the map so this is at the very best a gray area.

Varalla's passage area is mostly natural, even though there is a part that has a paved road it is rather small while most of the map seems to be a bunch of natural grottoes. There's no clear and accepted definition of when an area starts to be artificial rather than natural, I'd stick with the original builder's choice unless it's an oversight or makes no sense at all (like bg areas).

[Steve]

Dammit! Defeated!!

Guess it's time to start RPing destroying stonework masonry pillars and wooden platforms with wild abandon. DOWN WITH CIVILIZATION and its industriousness-ness!

[EasternCheesE]

I will close this since i have a big QC discussion about cavestalker, E.G.: Spirit shaman access, natural/artificial environment stuff etc.
While it's closed, it's not forgotten. If you feel things take long, feel free to PM me so i notify you if we are progressing or focused on some critical stuff.

[Steve]

Well, not to point fingers in any particular direction or even in eyes, but, I’d say that any “issue” that takes over one year to resolve, is an issue in itself that speaks to a larger problem, in general.

I mean, at a certain point, it’s rather obvious the Server is lacking in decision making abilities. Even bad decisions!! Yes, this is all volunteer, yes, sometimes there are no “right” answers, yes, there are simply lack-of-eyes-and-minds-and-Will on the Staff—another issue!!!—but seriously, why changes/decisions can’t be made and why changes/decisions any be REMADE, as the Server progresses, is, well, frustrating.

Nonetheless, I appreciate the moment, as in, “never too late…”. Progress ho!