Tempest Whirlwind/Whirlwind/NH Whirlwind

[qwertyh88]

I am not clear on exactly how the damage on NH whirlwind is calculate but from my experience. I experienced a bump in NH whirlwind damage after grabbing lvl 5 tempest so I thought the damage was boosted somehow from tempest whirlwind.

Later on, I obtained lvl 6 whirling dervish and the NH whirlwind damage appeared to have dropped to pre-lvl 5 tempest lvl.

Which got me to do some testing on the NH whirlwind damage. The lowest damage that I got was 8 damage on an ogre warrior with their dr 1/- , which doesn't make sense to me given that the minimal damage I can do with my offhand handaxe is 1+4 EB +7Str =12, minus -1dr so 11 w/o any other damage mods and NH str mod.

[Valefort]

Weapon EB is not taken into account, it's just 2d10 + STR mod.

[zhazz]

Weapon EB is not taken into account, it's just 2d10 + STR mod.

I am curious as to what the reasoning is behind this?

My own character, Relyth, seem to do both added Acid (property) and Fire (buff) damage with Tempest Whirlwind. So that's a bit curious, if EB isn't taken into account.

Same character also has Northlander Hewing (NH), and neither Acid or Fire Damage are applied to the NH Whirlwind proc.

Is Keen counted in the calculations for determining crit chance for Tempest and NH Whirlwinds? Both as a property and a buff.

[Theodore01]

Vale's answer was for NH Whirlwind.

"Normal" and tempest whirlwind use only your firsthand weapon for damage calculation. Keen should apply here.

[zhazz]

Vale's answer was for NH Whirlwind.

Still curious as to why it's only 2d10 + STR though.

I think all damage sources should be counted. Properties on weapon. Buffs. Feats. Or at the very least Feats.

"Normal" and tempest whirlwind use only your firsthand weapon for damage calculation. Keen should apply here.

Alright. Good to know. Thanks for clarifying.

[Theodore01]

Still curious as to why it's only 2d10 + STR though.

I would guess, because the secondary effect was added only as a "little" extra eyecatcher.
Regarding that bludgeoning gets KD and no damage and piercing an almost useless bleed (as the target is usually dead before the bleed kicks in ) - slashing wins.

@Valefort How is the KD and bleed calculated ?

[Valefort]

The KD is HD/2 + 2d8 DC, the bleed is STR mod bleed damage for 2 rounds.

I didn't want to give a huge boon to max STR characters for KD, hence the formula, as was pointed these random effects are cherries on top.

[zhazz]

the bleed is STR mod bleed damage for 2 rounds.

Does this Bleed ignore DR on the target, or is it as "useless" as the Bleeding Wound from Invisible Blade?

[qwertyh88]

From what I can tell, this bleed does ignore DR as I can bleed a skeleton..

However, I have noticed that the bleed effect does not stack and in fact a second bleed triggered right after the 1st bleed will cancel out the previous bleed and restart timer and makes you lose the 1st round of bleed.

[zhazz]

From what I can tell, this bleed does ignore DR as I can bleed a skeleton..

However, I have noticed that the bleed effect does not stack and in fact a second bleed triggered right after the 1st bleed will cancel out the previous bleed and restart timer and makes you lose the 1st round of bleed.

I'd still call that an improvement over the Bleeding Wound implementation! Which is sadly a hard-coded one from what I understand.

Kudos to Valefort for a non-DR bleed!