Rework Elemental Archer

[Rask]

I did not realize when taking this class for my new character, how horrendously nerfed it was on this server.

That out of the way, I understand wanting to lower its total damage potential somewhat, but what I do not understand is removing the -flavour- from the class.

What I mean by this, is I would love to see some bonus for taking the class as a Genasi, like there was originally. Maybe an extra 2 points of elemental damage, something like this, maybe a bit more AB, I dont know. But as it stands now, what used to be a class geared almost exlusively to Genasi, is just a lame class that is outdone entirely by just taking AA levels and going elf instead. I just would love for some of the flavour of the class to return, its a shame that this class that was a racially geared archer class for something other than elf, has had that aspect of its class taken away entirely. Also as it stands, 5 levels of Order of the Bow are significantly more powerful for archers than Elemental Archer is. Even if you had nerfed EA down to half-damage (1 damage per level.) it would have still been 1 point under Order of the Bow. The balance here just doesnt make a lot of sense to me.

What does everyone else think? I dont think this class sees much play due to the nerfs as it is, other than halfling slinger builds probably.

[c2k]

It follows the standard of unconditional damage bonuses for the other custom PRCS on the server. Maybe if it had 10 levels, it might have gotten bumped to 1d4 damage, but its a 5 level class.

[blacksoft]

I had your way of thinking for a bit, until I actually played on the server. It's fine as is, especially as a finisher (4th class) to whatever ranged build scheme.

ootbi may have higher damage but that damage doesn't hurt crit immune.

Although, I don't see the harm of letting gensai race add some sort of flavor to EA. Be it better dice for EA once-a-day abilities or straight up 1 more damage or something else.

[Deragnost]

OOTBI, also, doesn't add that +X damage to all arrows, but only at the arrow following the first one that hit the target.
So, you hit with an arrow with your first attack? Your second attack will gain +X damage, then it resets.

OOTBI isn't as strong as it looks

[MrSmith]

I opine a x 2 increase in AB and elemental damage is more than worth five PRC levels... combine this with Warslinger or other range related PRC adds... I struggle to understand the concern.

Cheers!

[Rask]

My conern is its supposed to be a flavour class for Genasi, not a buff for halfling slingers. It would be nice if it were kept within its original theme. Also as far as I am aware it isnt x2 AB and x2 ele damage here, its +2 AB, and +2 damage, which really isnt much for a 5 level sink. As I said, AA, another flavour class but for elves, is far more powerful as well.

I suppose I am just musing on that the class has lost its flavour, which is that it gave something extra if you matched a Genasi with the same element, and on this server it does not. I am not necessarily asking for some huge power boost here, but something to retail its original flavour was the discussion I was trying to have. Looking for ideas/discussion with that in mind.

I would love to see extra damage or a lower cooldown on its abilities perhaps, or an extra +2 AB, if you match the class element with your Genasi element. Something to retain the classes original flavour rather than a "finisher" for an AA or slinger build. Perhaps give a bonus feat at level 5 if you match the same element as your Genasi, allowing you to take the improved elemental storm feat. I dunno, im just throwing ideas out here.

[Diamore]

I have made several elemental archers over the years and deleted all of them. It is a nice flavoured class that is horrible by itself.

I even (shudder) played a halfling for the warslinger, which was an improvement but ended with the class feeling like a minor damage boost rather than anything unique on its own back. Elemental shield and Elemental storm are virtually worthless even after you take their related feats, relegating the whole class to being a +2 to hit and damage. Also available as a single fighter feat after bab 8 (any Ranged Mastery).

The whole class is essentially a "I may as well take it". The feats required are all taken by other ranged classes and there are virtually no trade offs for taking it as your 4th class due to only needing 5 lvls to get everything.

A bonus feat at lvl 3 and five that grants +1 elemental damage of a Genasi's type to all ranged damage would still make the class extremely underwhelming. But at least a little interesting for Genasi. I would personally make this feat add elemental damage to all attacks by Genasi, it would give back flavour and is better than taking a few Fighter levels instead.

[Rask]

I have made several elemental archers over the years and deleted all of them. It is a nice flavoured class that is horrible by itself.

I even (shudder) played a halfling for the warslinger, which was an improvement but ended with the class feeling like a minor damage boost rather than anything unique on its own back. Elemental shield and Elemental storm are virtually worthless even after you take their related feats, relegating the whole class to being a +2 to hit and damage. Also available as a single fighter feat after bab 8 (any Ranged Mastery).

The whole class is essentially a "I may as well take it". The feats required are all taken by other ranged classes and there are virtually no trade offs for taking it as your 4th class due to only needing 5 lvls to get everything.

A bonus feat at lvl 3 and five that grants +1 elemental damage of a Genasi's type to all ranged damage would still make the class extremely underwhelming. But at least a little interesting for Genasi. I would personally make this feat add elemental damage to all attacks by Genasi, it would give back flavour and is better than taking a few Fighter levels instead.

This has been my first time playing one and this is about my feelings with it too. It lacks the flavour the class was originally intended to have with the nerfs (Extra damage for Genasi.) in favour of heavy nerfing of barely any damage or AB boost at all. Even if they doubled the damage for Genasi (like how the actual class is supposed to work.) It's still only 4 damage, which still isn't that much. You get more damage add taking 5 levels of rogue than that. I'd really love to see it be something more than just "Because I have 5 levels with nothing better to take". I mean halflings have warslinger, elves have AA, why cant Genasi have this?

[Wildsheep]

I had no idea the class was supposed to be flavored towards Genasi. I always thought it was a discount arcane archer for non elves.

[Zkenic]

Correct me if I am wrong, but Elemental Archer was never a canonical PnP class, but was something created by Kaedrin specifically for NwN2. As such, the original lore written for the class was.

Elemental archers focus on channeling the elemental planes to supplement their combat prowess with ranged or thrown weapons. Through exhaustive training, elemental archers are capable of opening small rifts in one of the planes, infusing their attacks with elemental energy or shielding themselves from harm. These fearsome displays of raw elemental fury are rarely tolerated in most civilized lands which makes the class a perfect fit for the solitary Genasi though any race may become an elemental archer.

Druids and Rangers are the most likely characters to become elemental archers due to their ties to nature and the elements. It is not uncommon for Clerics and Favored Souls of a deity whose portfolio includes the elemental planes to follow the path as well. Those with a taste for the arcane and focus on elemental spells are also good candidates.

So genasi were mentioned in the little lore bubble. Also, the original Kaedrin prestige class gave genasi that took the elemental path aligned with their blood extra elemental damage per shot.

I do not see any reason not to stick with that theme when it comes to genasi. Seeing as BGTSCC nerfed the class from +5 elemental damage down to +2, it seems totally reasonable to give genasi +1 elemental damage, so from +7 down to +3.

[Valefort]

The lore bit remained untouched on BG, it doesn't really indicate a class absolutely made for genasis though (as was pointed, most ranged builds take this class anyway, including Arcane Archers and warslingers), just that they're slightly better at it.

I'd be more inclined to rework elemental shield and storm to something less gimmicky, therefore benfitting everyone, with a bit more power to genasis, than giving a boring +1 damage. Ranged builds are not doing badly on BG.

[Rask]

The lore bit remained untouched on BG, it doesn't really indicate a class absolutely made for genasis though (as was pointed, most ranged builds take this class anyway, including Arcane Archers and warslingers), just that they're slightly better at it.

I'd be more inclined to rework elemental shield and storm to something less gimmicky, therefore benfitting everyone, with a bit more power to genasis, than giving a boring +1 damage. Ranged builds are not doing badly on BG.

This was certainly something I was thinking of as well. An extra +1 damage and +1 AB or something would also be interesting for Genasi. Or even just +1 Damage as stated above.

But you're right as well, the elemental storm/shield are pretty worthless for almost everyone who takes the class. Reworking those, and maybe giving a slightly flavour buff to Genasi would be another road to take as well. The storm and shield being rather useless seems to be a general consensus here on this thread so far.
The shield I think, getting rounds per con modifier especially doesn't really make it very useful for most archer builds. The bonus to deflection AC isn't so bad, but perhaps switching that to Nat AC or Dodge AC, and making it based on something other than Con, would be a good start for that ability. Even then, depending on the build its still marginally useful at best. More of a "get out of a sticky situation, maybe" card trump card, since things have to be in melee range, so only really going to be used in certain situations, which really, HIPS is going to get you out of these situations without the need for the shield. Perhaps even making it "hour" instead of "round", even then it wont last super long, 6 in game hours or so per cast. But at least it makes it more handy for longer adventures.

As for the storm, that one is a bit tougher. It could certainly use a damage buff, perhaps across both the feat that goes along with it, as well as the ability itself. But that being said, the extra feat you can take to make it stronger is especially useless as it does not give enough of a boost to warrant wasting an entire feat on it IMO.

Also you're right, ranged builds dont do too badly on BG, but my point was that Halfings have Wasrling, and Elves have AA. This is the two most common ranged builds we see because those classes are the best at it, and are exclusive to those races. This isnt saying EA should be genasi exclusive, but since Genasi are an ECL race that are probably one of the least played races, excluding the earth genasi fighter builds, it would be pretty nice to see a viable alternative reason to play other types of Genasi builds like this. It adds to the flavour of both the class, and a race that doesn't see a lot of play.

I mean lets be real here, I see builds posted in this very forum using Sniper that can hit over 400+ Damage in the first flurry. And we are worried about Genasi having some extra exclusive flavour/Damage in a ranged build, to a class that was always meant to give them a bit of a boost? Even if we doubled the damage for Genasi with this class, it would still never reach those Slinger numbers.

[AgentOrange]

The people have spoken, let's buff Elemental Archer!

[blacksoft]

The people have spoken, let's buff Elemental Archer!

You realize The People you are "quoting" are asking for a Gensai buff, not EA buff, right?