What would happen if the CR levels were inverted for maps?

blacksoft · Unread post by **blacksoft** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:27 pm

Seems that there are less areas to quest in as you gain XP.

Why is that? It takes more XP the higher the level. Plus, wouldn't folks want incentive to stay at 30 where they worked so hard to reach? With more quests at epic levels, it lets us enjoy our optimum build choices even more.

What say you?

Blackman D · Unread post by **Blackman D** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:58 pm

not sure what the question is?

there is no real "inverting" CR bc CR has nothing to do with how hard a map is, its just a given value to determine xp and the question of epic maps is irrelevant because there is a massive xp drop off at lvl 21 exp; as in normal lvl 21, meaning ecl hits it 1 or 2 levels sooner

but yea not sure what you are trying to suggest

blacksoft · Unread post by **blacksoft** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:40 pm

Blackman D wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:58 pm not sure what the question is?

there is no real "inverting" CR bc CR has nothing to do with how hard a map is, its just a given value to determine xp and the question of epic maps is irrelevant because there is a massive xp drop off at lvl 21 exp; as in normal lvl 21, meaning ecl hits it 1 or 2 levels sooner

but yea not sure what you are trying to suggest

In truth, I am just asking for more various questing maps for epic leveling and more to do at 30 as you can see that there are way more lower level areas then epic ones.

Ya, kind of a weird way to approach asking the question. But I did so, since its pretty easy to level 1-10 at a quick clip and not need all the areas at those levels when there seems to be a dearth (in comparison anyway) at 28+.

It is more thought postulating than a true suggestion, since having much to do at lower levels is not a bad thing.

Blackman D · Unread post by **Blackman D** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:57 pm

assuming you are talking about the surface, they is plenty to do, in epics your build may not be able to handle certain areas, but they are there

the UD is a different story

Valefort · Unread post by **Valefort** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:23 am

It's the distribution of areas that doesn't match the speed of leveling. We've got numerous low level areas, where the leveling speed is absurdly quick, while we have fewer epic areas where things slow down noticeably.

As far as I'm concerned the suggestion is sound however it's a ton of work and if the server split happens as expected then there's no need to rob Peter to pay Paul, the focus would merely need to be on higher level dungeons than low level ones for the new areas.

Steve · Unread post by **Steve** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:30 am

Would it be possible to take a dungeon, say the Kobold Ruins as it is, copy it but add/substitute a epic CR mob(s), and at the same location in the Server, create a new waypoint, next to the existing low CR one?

So many existing Areas are fantastically created/designed, but the issue is that mobs stay static in CR, yet our PCs grow. It the mobs were replaced, then the same map design could be “experienced” over and over through the leveling process.

Though I doubt this, it would be good for the Server if once a map exists, if it was “doubled” with a different CR mob, it wouldn’t take up more
Memory (just like when in building Areas, it’s best to reuse placeables instead of differing placeables to save on bits and bytes).

Valefort · Unread post by **Valefort** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:02 am

For the memory part I do not know for sure but I disagree on the principle. This is instanciated dungeon, something fundamentally alien to a sensible make believe world. "That dungeon with kobolds ? Oh no it is the very same but full of Ogre mages."

It's not doublethink you need at this point, it's n-think.

Also the changes would not be reduced to mobs as many other things are statics and tied to maps, such as triggers or chests.

Steve · Unread post by **Steve** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:15 am

Is it anymore an OOC leap in “reality” thinking that any dungeon has a consistent single type, never progressing in experience, mob population with constantly refilling treasure chests and wall torches that never burnout?!?

I’m all for new Areas being made, but my suggestion was more an attempt to reuse resources, if that was a mechanical possibility, which it doesn’t appear to be, actually.

Valefort · Unread post by **Valefort** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:18 am

Yes it's another leap, you would have to think that a single physical location can be different when you enter it.

Steve · Unread post by **Steve** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:20 am

Valefort wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:18 am Yes it's another leap, you would have to think that a single physical location can be different when you enter it.

And...that’s a bad thing?!?

Valefort · Unread post by **Valefort** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:24 am

That's a question ?

Do I need to lay out the logical consequences until we reach Steve = Unreal ?

Unread post by **Rhifox** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:33 am

I wish more people RPed that subsequent visits to a dungeon were different parts of the dungeon, or different dungeons altogether, instead of what it is now, which is "Oh I know that place like the back of my hand, I keep killing the chief and they keep selecting a new one!"

Valefort · Unread post by **Valefort** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:49 am

"Oh I know that place like the back of my hand, I keep killing the chief and they keep selecting a new one!" seems much more sensible than a different dungeon to me. You only need one guy saying "No no it was the same dungeon", simply because he was not in your group or doesn't have the same approach to run straight into an impossibility for this "another dungeon" idea.

Steve · Unread post by **Steve** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:10 am

Well, in my example of Kobold Ruins, it actually WOULD be perceived as the same dungeon...only that for some, the monsters found within are more dangerous than for others!

I mean, lacking the actual mechanics in NWN2 where a dungeon-area could scale mob CR to the Level and Number of PCs that enter it, I was simply spitballing for a way to reuse what we got at the low levels that is breezes through for epic adventuring, which takes longer to progress.

c2k · Unread post by **c2k** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:19 am

Steve wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:10 am I mean, lacking the actual mechanics in NWN2 where a dungeon-area could scale mob CR to the Level and Number of PCs that enter it, I was simply spitballing for a way to reuse what we got at the low levels that is breezes through for epic adventuring, which takes longer to progress.

I think this is possible, but then you have an issue of the level 30 epic spawning Hell in the kobold ruins while popping chests where some level 3s are trying to level. Its just a problem at that point.

I think its more feasible to do in higher level dungeons. I don't know the ins and outs of the encounter spawn system this server uses, but I wonder if it might just be easier to create encounter themes and have them shuffle every reset.

What would happen if the CR levels were inverted for maps?

What would happen if the CR levels were inverted for maps?

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