Changes to UMD

[Diamore]

In the last week I have noticed the UMD formula has been changed for using scrolls. I had not seen this updated anywhere and the skill description in game still uses the original formula.

New Formula:

Use a Scroll: Lvl 1(DC26), Lvl 2(DC27), Lvl 3(DC28), Lvl 4(DC29), Lvl 5(DC30), Lvl 6(DC31), Lvl 7(DC32), Lvl 8(DC33), Lvl 9(DC34)
NOTE: BGTSCC Uses the Hardcore mode calculations for this skill for scroll use, which are DC=25+Spell Level.

This means that at level 12 (or 21 cross class) with maximum UMD a character still only has a 50% chance of success to cast a level 1 mage armor scroll. Could someone point me to the thread discussing the reasoning for this change?

[Blackman D]

you are suppose to be reading the scrolls, when you are not a caster its not suppose to be easy

its not like a wand or magical item that has a trigger word, the only way to use scrolls is to read them either out loud or with read magic which automatically triggers the scroll

idk the specific reason for the update but it does make sense

[Diamore]

It was already difficult to do, it required skill point investment. A large amount of them for cross class use and a significant amount for non-cross class to cast most low level scrolls semi reliably.

The difficulty was increased by 13. 13-26 skill points worth.

That is a leap of 10 levels of requirements (level 2 to 12) for a mere 50% chance of using the lowest level scroll. A consumable that is already limited by price and availability.

For any epic character built around previous difficulties, especially those with a cross class investment in it, they have essentially lost access to scrolls. For any low level characters without magic they have no access to scrolls at all.

I can't see any reason to have such a large jump in DC.

[Thaelis]

Actually DC 25+spell level is a pretty decent approximation of how it works in PnP. To cast a 9th level spell you need to make one DC 29 roll (to read the scroll) and one DC 34 roll (to emulate Intelligence 19).

So BG's DC 34 roll is actually easier for most players than PnP would be. The only losers are those with Intelligence 19+.

[Rhifox]

This is an unintended change resulting from recent fixes to store prices I believe. Valefort can explain more when he's available.

[Diamore]

This change does a poor approximation of low level spells however as many players will have 12-14 in Intelligence or Charisma.

A scaling increase from level 1-9 spells would have been more appropriate to approximate the second skill roll required for higher skills. Assuming that was the intention of the higher skill rolls.

DC20+ spell level seems more reasonable (and is the pnp implementation). But even this change is still a 7-14 skill point difference, or a 7 level increase on the requirements to use a scroll.

Edit: If it is unintended the wiki reflects the change as currently implemented.

[Rhifox]

Then in that case it's not a change new to just this past week, as the change to the wiki to those numbers was made in May. I thought when you said it was just showing up this week that you were referring to stuff like reports we've been getting since the update a few days ago of Teleport scrolls now requiring several more points to use than they used to.

If this is an older change, and intended, then yes I agree the in-game description should be updated.

[Endelyon]

Yes, these are vanilla NWN2 values for UMD use at our module's difficulty setting. Some specific scrolls had their UMD values changed with the pricing changes because they were previously set at a value that was too low (Teleport comes to mind).

[Theodore01]

The drastic increase in the required UMD to use scrolls happend some weeks/month ago.

In general, I like the new approach.


But it already made some of the lv30 chars., which had invested some points in UMD - so that they could use a specific scroll, unable to do that anymore !
(That in itself could be a reason to ask for a free RCR, as UMD had used the old formular since the beginning of time.)

Now with the scroll/casterlevel change, it even got worse.

[Diamore]

Was there a thread discussing these changes I can look over? If there was one, there is no point in rehashing old discussions that answer my questions.

Also, a list of scrolls whose UMD requirements have changed would be useful. I assume these are simply the same formula then that was somehow missed in the last dramatic skill requirement increase?

I have played exclusively casters for the most part and recently switched back to my UMD characters and finding most of my scrolls unable to be used.