Increase store costs of SL4+ potions

[Kitunenotsume]

I would like to suggest that the cost for potions of spells of Spell Level 4 or higher be increased at NPC stores.

My suggestion is that the prices for such items be increased to at least [30 x casterlevel x spelllevel], though possibly up to twice that as the provided formula is the brewing cost.

My reason for this suggestion is that such potions should not exist - as they are in fact Elixirs, and that while I do not necessarily think it is appropriate to remove them entirely, that such items should be at least comparable in cost to those subjected to the lone class capable of making them. While I accept that Potions of SL3 and below are unlikely to change, they can be crafted using the Brew Potion feat plentifully . Those above SL3 are entirely the domain of a class ability, not a feat available to any spellcaster, and should not be "Potions" by mechanical definition.

I am aware that they are capable of dropping and may be found in a variety of places, though I suspect that the Potions of Heal (Spell level 6) available at both the Enclave and Candlekeep (among other places) are among the most egregious offenders.

As the most prominent example, a [Potion of Heal] costs, from a vendor, between 700 and 900 gp each.
A Master Alchemist crafting an [Elixir of Heal CL 11, (caster level 11)] must pay 1320 GP [20gp x CL 11 x SL 6] which includes the class-provided 33% crafting cost reduction (Without said reduction the crafting would cost 1980 gp [30gp x CL 11 x SL 6]). As this is the crafting cost, and the general rules suggest that the crafting cost of a magical item is half that of the sale value, this suggests that Elixirs of Heal should run for about 4000 GP each.
While this might be excessive, it illustrates that 800 GP for a potion that shouldn't exist is perhaps a slight lowball.

I am reasonably certain that there are other such potions out there in stores, but have personally explored only small number of the potential stores that may carry such items.

[Edit]:: Upon revisiting, the Thayan Enclave sells [Potions of Greater Heroism], a 5th level spell for Bards and 6th level for Wizards. Even assuming the Enclave sources from bards, 800-900 GP is still cheaper than the minimum 1300 GP (Bard) or 1320 GP (Wizard) Master Alchemist Elixir crafting cost. Without class discount the calculation would be 1950 GP (Bard) or 1980 GP (Wizard) for crafting costs.

[Thaelis]

+1 bazillion

If I had one Wish from a Djinni I'd delete Heal potions. That and make Healing kits only heal damage outside combat (can still stabilize the dying during combat).

And before people start shouting, there are already a Belt and Ring in game that let you use Heal legitimately.

[Kitunenotsume]

Truthiness, on Discord, also pointed out that NPC potions have a mechanical advantage over otherwise identical Elixirs, in the form of lacking toxicity.
They can therefore be spammed in use, which Elixirs cannot, making said potions strictly superior for a lower cost.

There was the valid concern brought up that Elixirs are therefore better used for buffs than instant effects or heals, but gets into the opacity that is the Toxicity system, which is not the scope of this thread.

[zhazz]

I agree that the cost of store-bought potions/elixirs should be increased to at the very least match the player-created equivalents.

Even without any base ranks in Appraise the Heroism potions sold at the Thayan Enclave cost about 135 each. That's nearly half the price per potion compared to the 250 per potion from Mudds. For RP reasons my characters buy from Mudds instead, despite the higher cost, but it always hurts a little to know that they are cheaper elsewhere.

[Kitunenotsume]

For clarity, my purpose with this suggestion is not regarding spells under Level 3 - IE, my intent with this thread is only currently regarding NPC-sold potions that cannot be made with the Brew Potion feat.

It is my understanding that this should be a much smaller list than addressing all potion costs generally, and should avoid impacting 'starter-kit' items.
Additionally, while I agree that there is a substantial lack of parity between crafting and purchased costs, it has been broached on previous threads and concluded to remain with the status quo in regards to the general case.

[DiceyCZ]

That is pretty reasonable and I actually never knew you can buy Heal or GH pots at NPC store... -.-
But with the economy being as player driven as it is mainly due to the cap on selling to NPCs, it means that one of the main money making classes (read crafter) is half made useless in this case since Heal and GH are most used spells in grinding and they won't ever be able to sell them. It would make a lot more sense to give Master Alchemist advantage over stores on all potions to promote people either needing an apparaise or crafter to cut cost of grinding.